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Thread: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q[W:487:681]

  1. #501
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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by Jango View Post
    Yeah, let's see how much sense it makes when that assistance gets cut cold turkey (like some want) and there is ****ing anarchy in the streets because TENS OF MILLIONS of people are now starving, homeless & very, very upset about the government turning its back on them. Didn't think of that, did you? And it's not even an unforeseen consequence, it is the direct result of cutting it off cold turkey.

    See, that's the problem with conservatives like you. You're incapable of thinking beyond the Fox News talking points to realize that you can't cut off assistance to 10,000,000+ people BEFORE the infrastructure for fillable jobs is put into place. If there were enough jobs to go around for everyone, there wouldn't be so many people on the government's dole. And that's the problem. All conservatives want to do is cut out government assistance and do nothing about the piss poor job field in this country.

    Now, I realize I probably offended you with the above, but please, don't hand-wave it away with complaining about what I said - instead, actually address it.
    Wow, project much? Why don't you respond to the post and tell me why the Federal Govt. has a responsibility for state and local issues? Tell me why a one size fits all Federal Social programs work. All I see from you are liberal talking points that lack basic logic and common sense. Like far too many you believe a massive central govt, with a 3.8 TRILLION dollar budget is the answer to local and state social problems. Those massive central govt. results are ignored by people who think with their heart instead of their brain.

    You didn't offend me at all because I learned a long time again when a political opponent is committing suicide with their comments, simply get out of the way and let them. I am waiting for you to address the points I made but doubt that will ever happen

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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    You have evidence of higher profit margins? Take BP, for example, who recently had record profits. Their profit margin meanwhile has not moved anywhere but down, from an avg of 7% to an avg of 4-5%.

    BP Profit Margin (Quarterly) (BP)
    The evidence is widely available.
    S&P 500 Margins Return To All-Time High - Business Insider
    High profit margins hint at pain to come - Mark Hulbert - MarketWatch
    RIP Record Profit Margins | The Reformed Broker
    When Will Corporate Profit Margins Contract? | PRAGMATIC CAPITALISM

    That fact you took the time to search out BP which is suffering from industry specific issues and discount all the literature on record profit margins is pretty disconcerting
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    The evidence is widely available.
    S&P 500 Margins Return To All-Time High - Business Insider
    High profit margins hint at pain to come - Mark Hulbert - MarketWatch
    RIP Record Profit Margins | The Reformed Broker
    When Will Corporate Profit Margins Contract? | PRAGMATIC CAPITALISM

    That fact you took the time to search out BP which is suffering from industry specific issues and discount all the literature on record profit margins is pretty disconcerting
    Do you have any clue as to what you are promoting? Why is it such a problem for you to see companies making profits based upon market conditions and personal choices made by consumers? Is that the way you were raised that profits are bad, business is bad, and a big govt. that micromanages a private sector economy is good? you care about what others make and pay in taxes but not so much how your 3.8 trillion dollar Federal govt. runs of course unless it is being run by a Republican. Why is that?

    There isn't a Socialist country in the world successful and it never was the intent of our Founders to have a massive central govt. Why all of a sudden with a 17.5 trillion dollar debt is a massive central govt. better than holding your state and local government accountable for results. You certainly don't hold the Federal Govt. responsible for results again unless it is a Republican Administration?

    By the way, profit margins are not a good indication of how a company is doing, ROI and ROE are. Do you know what those profit margins cover in terms of investment?

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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    The evidence is widely available.
    S&P 500 Margins Return To All-Time High - Business Insider
    High profit margins hint at pain to come - Mark Hulbert - MarketWatch
    RIP Record Profit Margins | The Reformed Broker
    When Will Corporate Profit Margins Contract? | PRAGMATIC CAPITALISM

    That fact you took the time to search out BP which is suffering from industry specific issues and discount all the literature on record profit margins is pretty disconcerting
    I took a widely criticized for profits company, to use as an example. But maybe youre right in the more general sense.

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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Do you have any clue as to what you are promoting? Why is it such a problem for you to see companies making profits based upon market conditions and personal choices made by consumers? Is that the way you were raised that profits are bad, business is bad, and a big govt. that micromanages a private sector economy is good? you care about what others make and pay in taxes but not so much how your 3.8 trillion dollar Federal govt. runs of course unless it is being run by a Republican. Why is that?
    This whole conversation was started by you claiming Obama was bad for business. Now...try and keep up...my whole argument was based on "if he's so bad for business why are they having record profits?". What's followed has been gibberish and obfuscation and now of course...the personal attack on me. Basically nothing discounting that companies are doing really well...

    By the way, profit margins are not a good indication of how a company is doing, ROI and ROE are. Do you know what those profit margins cover in terms of investment?
    Actually profit margins are a fantastic way to gauge how a business is doing. It's revenue minus operating income...it's how profitable a company is.....a company with long term negative profit margins is a company no longer in business. It's pretty much how you measure the profitability of a company.

    As for ROI...how do you even measure that?!? to determine how a company is doing in the short term!?????!???

    If Proctor and Gamble spends X million on a new plant in 2012 are you saying they have a very low ROI based on that year? Are you compiling the long term..."return on investment" of that plant over 20 years to find out how smart they are with their money? I'm not convinced you have any idea what an ROI is beyond some basic definition. You seem to apply it to things you can't really apply it to. ROI is the long term return on an investment...because..investments are long term. To say that ROI is how you would judge a company over a 6 year term shows you have no idea what you're talking about!
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    iliveonramen;1063468761]This whole conversation was started by you claiming Obama was bad for business. Now...try and keep up...my whole argument was based on "if he's so bad for business why are they having record profits?". What's followed has been gibberish and obfuscation and now of course...the personal attack on me. Basically nothing discounting that companies are doing really well...
    Now try to focus, you confuse big business with small business and the fact that neither can print cash like the Govt. Businesses have to make money to stay in business any anything that increases costs hurts business. Obamanomics is an uncertainty to business and business doesn't like uncertainty because it cannot plan for the future not knowing what Obama is going to do next. They are current stockpiling cash at the big business level because operating expenses are low since they aren't hiring. It is the small businesses that have gone out of business because of the poor economy and Obamanomics that you want to ignore


    Actually profit margins are a fantastic way to gauge how a business is doing. It's revenue minus operating income...it's how profitable a company is.....a company with long term negative profit margins is a company no longer in business. It's pretty much how you measure the profitability of a company.

    As for ROI...how do you even measure that?!? to determine how a company is doing in the short term!?????!???

    If Proctor and Gamble spends X million on a new plant in 2012 are you saying they have a very low ROI based on that year? Are you compiling the long term..."return on investment" of that plant over 20 years to find out how smart they are with their money? I'm not convinced you have any idea what an ROI is beyond some basic definition. You seem to apply it to things you can't really apply it to. ROI is the long term return on an investment...because..investments are long term. To say that ROI is how you would judge a company over a 6 year term shows you have no idea what you're talking about!

    Wrong, profit margins are a short term gauge on how to judge business performance, the real tool is ROI and ROE. Return on investment is taking the profit made and divided by the investment in that business. You will find very low ROI is a lot of businesses that you seem to not understand. Business isn't like just putting money into an account and earning simple interest, it is about actual risk taking and if you don't generate a profit you aren't getting a return on that investment.

    ROI is how you judge any investment and it is short term and long term. Businesses don't last long without making a good return on their investment. You have shown no evidence that you have any clue how businesses operate

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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    Well there you go. THATS why we cant balance the budget. Which means I guess YOU need to pay more taxes to pay for anything and everything you want the govt to do.
    I'm not saying things don't need to be cut, but (by all appearances) simply throwing a dart at a wall covered in agencies isn't the way to do it.

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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Wow, project much? Why don't you respond to the post and tell me why the Federal Govt. has a responsibility for state and local issues? Tell me why a one size fits all Federal Social programs work. All I see from you are liberal talking points that lack basic logic and common sense. Like far too many you believe a massive central govt, with a 3.8 TRILLION dollar budget is the answer to local and state social problems. Those massive central govt. results are ignored by people who think with their heart instead of their brain.

    You didn't offend me at all because I learned a long time again when a political opponent is committing suicide with their comments, simply get out of the way and let them. I am waiting for you to address the points I made but doubt that will ever happen
    1) I already addressed why the need for the federal government to intervene exists. But, I'll do it again. Take my state, Michigan as an example, specifically with Detroit & other large cities like Saginaw. The amount of people hurting & disadvantaged in either city, particularly Detroit, exceeds anything the local government can handle by itself or even partnered with the state. Why? Because there are too many people & if they (local & state) went it alone there would become the obvious issue of, "What about the rest of the state?" The same applies for your state - imagine if cities like Houston, Dallas & San Antonio were to become like Detroit. Could the state of Texas handle that burden by itself?

    2) And how am I projecting? If you think I am, then it means you believe that 10,000,000+ people's assistance turning off before they're back on their feet WOULDN'T lead to enormous problems. So, please, shed some light on why you think that.

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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Jango;1063469134]1) I already addressed why the need for the federal government to intervene exists. But, I'll do it again. Take my state, Michigan as an example, specifically with Detroit & other large cities like Saginaw. The amount of people hurting & disadvantaged in either city, particularly Detroit, exceeds anything the local government can handle by itself or even partnered with the state. Why? Because there are too many people & if they (local & state) went it alone there would become the obvious issue of, "What about the rest of the state?" The same applies for your state - imagine if cities like Houston, Dallas & San Antonio were to become like Detroit. Could the state of Texas handle that burden by itself?
    Yes, the state of TX can and will handle its problems by itself and there isn't an individual social problem in any state that cannot be handled by the state, local government, and citizens of that state. You tell me why the people of TX should fund a one size fits all Federal Program that doesn't solve any social problem, only prolongs it. The city of Detroit hasn't had a Republican Mayor in decades and created most of the problems itself. Now you want a bailout. Rewarding bad behavior will never change that behavior and that is what you propose.

    2) And how am I projecting? If you think I am, then it means you believe that 10,000,000+ people's assistance turning off before they're back on their feet WOULDN'T lead to enormous problems. So, please, shed some light on why you think that.
    Again, you think with your heart instead of your brain. Life is about making choices, good or bad, and yes people make bad choices. For those people the state and local communities can and should handle the problem. We have a country of 312 million or so Americans with 50 independent sovereign states that you seem to be something the Federal bureaucrats in D.C. can handle. Throwing money at the problem only creates the incentive to do little to solve the problem. It doesn't take a 3.8 TRILLION dollar Federal Govt. to help those truly in need regardless of the liberal rhetoric.

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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by Jango View Post
    I'm not saying things don't need to be cut, but (by all appearances) simply throwing a dart at a wall covered in agencies isn't the way to do it.
    Thats not how I did it. THose are simply the most obvious ones. But even then you had an argument against cutting it. So what happens when I get to the less obvious ones. You tell me, name me something the govt does that you can live without.

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