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Thread: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q[W:487:681]

  1. #371
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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    You do realize that liberals never admit when they are wrong, they just ignore the response
    Imagep is usually pretty factual, so I suspect he'll be embarrassed.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  2. #372
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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Really? How so, if RWR took office on 20 Jan 1981?

    Jan 1, 1984 4.19%
    Jan 1, 1983 3.71%
    Jan 1, 1982 8.39%
    Jan 1, 1981 11.83%
    Jan 1, 1980 13.91%
    Jan 1, 1979 9.28%

    US Inflation Rate by Year
    1981 the inflation rate was 10.35% for the year. That's some pretty significant inflation.

    But after reviewing the numbers, yes, we did have more (OPEC oil price driven) inflation in the last two years of Carters administration.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

  3. #373
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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    You do realize that liberals never admit when they are wrong, they just ignore the response
    thats true, ideologues NEVER admit that they were wrong.

    However, I am not an ideologue, so I am allowed the luxury of admitting that I was wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

  4. #374
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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    1981 the inflation rate was 10.35% for the year. That's some pretty significant inflation.

    But after reviewing the numbers, yes, we did have more (OPEC oil price driven) inflation in the last two years of Carters administration.
    Did OPEC go out of business after RWR took office?
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  5. #375
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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Got it, Bush with a Democrat Congress from 2007-2008 is responsible for the economic results but now it is the Republican House responsible for the economy. Liberals aren't responsible for anything, is that right?

    Bush left the country with a 10.6 trillion dollar debt that is now 17.5 trillion which of course Obama had nothing to do with

    Bush did have job losses of 750,000 but never had 1.2 million discouraged workers who aren't counted as unemployed.

    Interesting how you and others still defend the indefensible and have no idea what you are talking about.
    Liberals will be responsible for the bad economy that the next conservative has. Time lag effect you know.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

  6. #376
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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Thank you for the advice, but I make my comments based upon responses that show Progressives/Liberals out of touch with reality....
    Out of touch with YOUR reality, you mean.


    and how in a private sector economy they attack wealth creation
    How, by recognizing that banks exploited their customers, because they sold products without keeping any skin in the game themselves, and betting against what they sold? By pointing out that the ratio of CEO pay to other employee pay has skyrocketed from 25:1 in the 1970s to over 200:1 now? How CEO's get huge compensation packages that are disconnected from performance? How CEO's who depart or are fired get massive golden parachutes? How mass layoffs tend to be associated with a boost in stock price? By pointing out how wages have been falling for everyone except the top 1% of earners? By being aware that top earners influence lawmakers to riddle the tax code with loopholes for their advantage, and use them to reduce their effective tax rates? By noticing that a significant portion of the super-wealthy are not "job creators," but rather people in the financial sector who generate their income (which is often taxed at low rates, since it's classified as "carried interest") by engaging in high-speed trading and arbitrage -- i.e. placing bets on obscure economic factors? By noticing that private health insurance in the US has become an abject failure, with insurance premiums and medical costs massively outpacing inflation for well over a decade?

    Of course, you're probably going to read that and assume that I'm a commie pinko. But actually, I'm not. I don't hate corporations or CEO's or even hedge fund managers. I don't reject capitalism. I don't want government to nationalize any corporations.

    I'm just aware that the super-wealthy have stacked certain systems in their favor, and in their own self-interest, and as a result everyone suffers. CEO's focus on short-term profits and stock prices; hedge funds don't care about potential contagious effects of their work; banks and mortgage brokers are happy to sell off all their interest in MBS's and derivatives; investors don't care about fundamentals or long-term viability. And if the average person's wages keep eroding, then the entire economy ends up suffering. I also don't want to create or perpetuate safety nets that then turn into welfare traps.

    I.e. the incentives and the tax system have gotten off track. Acting like nothing is wrong, and that CEO's and hedge funders are the Golden Boys of Capitalism, or that the government should eliminate all oversight, is a huge mistake and will end up damaging the economy.

    Now, I will admit there are some on the left who are anti-corporate. But there are plenty of people on the right now who feel the same way, as typified by their rejection of the auto and bank bailouts, and now a desire to shut down the Ex-Im Bank (and they're just getting started).


    nothing about the trillions being wasted by the Federal Govt. all in the name of compassion but never generating compassionate results.
    Or, we can recognize that some programs actually do keep people from abject poverty; that not every aspect of a safety net is a welfare trap; and that millions of people who are collecting benefits are in fact being treated compassionately, because they are too old to work.

  7. #377
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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    Liberals will be responsible for the bad economy that the next conservative has. Time lag effect you know.
    Remember the mess liberals claimed Obama inherited? The next Republican President will inherit a bigger mess with huge debt, high unemployment/under employment/discouraged workers, stagnant economic growth, and a much divided country with record numbers dependent on a massive central govt. That is a prescription for disaster.

    What liberals want to point out is that Bush lost 750,000 jobs a few months but ignore the reality that Obama had over a million discouraged workers who aren't counted as unemployed thus making the unemployment number look better than it actually is. Last time I checked a million discouraged workers is higher than 750,000 unemployed. Adding unemployed and discouraged workers still has Obama with a worse economic record.

  8. #378
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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    Out of touch with YOUR reality, you mean.



    How, by recognizing that banks exploited their customers, because they sold products without keeping any skin in the game themselves, and betting against what they sold? By pointing out that the ratio of CEO pay to other employee pay has skyrocketed from 25:1 in the 1970s to over 200:1 now? How CEO's get huge compensation packages that are disconnected from performance? How CEO's who depart or are fired get massive golden parachutes? How mass layoffs tend to be associated with a boost in stock price? By pointing out how wages have been falling for everyone except the top 1% of earners? By being aware that top earners influence lawmakers to riddle the tax code with loopholes for their advantage, and use them to reduce their effective tax rates? By noticing that a significant portion of the super-wealthy are not "job creators," but rather people in the financial sector who generate their income (which is often taxed at low rates, since it's classified as "carried interest") by engaging in high-speed trading and arbitrage -- i.e. placing bets on obscure economic factors? By noticing that private health insurance in the US has become an abject failure, with insurance premiums and medical costs massively outpacing inflation for well over a decade?

    Of course, you're probably going to read that and assume that I'm a commie pinko. But actually, I'm not. I don't hate corporations or CEO's or even hedge fund managers. I don't reject capitalism. I don't want government to nationalize any corporations.

    I'm just aware that the super-wealthy have stacked certain systems in their favor, and in their own self-interest, and as a result everyone suffers. CEO's focus on short-term profits and stock prices; hedge funds don't care about potential contagious effects of their work; banks and mortgage brokers are happy to sell off all their interest in MBS's and derivatives; investors don't care about fundamentals or long-term viability. And if the average person's wages keep eroding, then the entire economy ends up suffering. I also don't want to create or perpetuate safety nets that then turn into welfare traps.

    I.e. the incentives and the tax system have gotten off track. Acting like nothing is wrong, and that CEO's and hedge funders are the Golden Boys of Capitalism, or that the government should eliminate all oversight, is a huge mistake and will end up damaging the economy.

    Now, I will admit there are some on the left who are anti-corporate. But there are plenty of people on the right now who feel the same way, as typified by their rejection of the auto and bank bailouts, and now a desire to shut down the Ex-Im Bank (and they're just getting started).



    Or, we can recognize that some programs actually do keep people from abject poverty; that not every aspect of a safety net is a welfare trap; and that millions of people who are collecting benefits are in fact being treated compassionately, because they are too old to work.
    Again, you seem not to understand whose responsibility the poor and those on welfare belong to? Liberals believe it is Washington but the reality is it is the state and local communities. Further liberals want to blame Bush and the banks for the problem when the reality it was the sub prime loans and abuse of those loans that hurt the economy. I am waiting for you to tell me how this recession affected you and your family? What exactly did you lose?

    I don't give a damn about the super wealthy, why do you? What did they do to prevent you from becoming wealthy? You care more about what someone else makes or pays in taxes than the waste, fraud, and abuse in a 3.8 TRILLION Dollar Federal Govt. Why is that?

  9. #379
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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Aw, no question about it, strong economic growth has been stifled by poor weather for the last 6 1/2 years. ....
    No, even further back than that. You know, the Great Bush Recession was caused by poor weather also.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

  10. #380
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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Did OPEC go out of business after RWR took office?
    Why don't you post a chart of the price of oil during that era?

    Never mind, I found one

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

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