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Thread: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q[W:487:681]

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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    How startling is that difference in the outlays from 2007 to 2011? That's almost an additional $1 trillion - about 35% higher. Geezus.
    Liberals will just tell you it was needed to keep us out of a depression, or it was Bush's tax cuts for the rich, or unfunded wars. There is no winning with them.

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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony60 View Post
    Um, that part is supposed to be ignored. There are many colorful charts and graphs that show that it was not Obama's fault.
    This one is my favorite. Im sure MTA has posted it already. As you can see Bush is at fault for anything that happens. Really we dont even need liberals to have a debate anymore. We can just play their part ourselves.

    Attachment 67168810

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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    This one is my favorite. Im sure MTA has posted it already. As you can see Bush is at fault for anything that happens. Really we dont even need liberals to have a debate anymore. We can just play their part ourselves.

    Attachment 67168810
    Bad attachment.
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    Bad attachment.
    Bad argument too.

    Conservatives don't want to cloud their opinion with graphs derived from data.
    "I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it." --J.S. Mill

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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
    Bad argument too.

    Conservatives don't want to cloud their opinion with graphs derived from data.
    Were you able to see it or just speculating?
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    So I'm guessing I came too late to the thread to actually discuss the topic?
    Last edited by Khayembii Communique; 06-26-14 at 11:50 AM.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q | Fox Business

    Congratulations, Liberals, you are getting what you want, A European Socialist economy dependent on a Federal Govt. run by liberals and with more people dependent on that govt. for existence. This is exactly what you get when you elect and re-elect a totally unqualified individual to the highest office in the land, High unemployment, high debt, low economic growth are the new normal in this country
    so disappointing for the administration.

    this will result in a drag on employment numbers as we approach election time in november. remember, employment is a lagging economic indicator.
    Go Vols

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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    So I'm guessing I came too late to the thread to actually discuss the topic?
    You could've been on page 2 and been too late.
    I have CDO, it's like OCD but the letters are in alphabetical order like they should be.

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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Kid, you have a problem....
    Please read what I wrote. I am including war spending in the figures I'm using.


    Show me the official Treasury numbers that support your claim. This is nothing more than liberal BS
    Egads.

    The problem with using some official numbers in this discussion is that, yet again... Bush put the war off-budget. If you're looking at documents generated during the Bush years, you will miss a big chunk of military spending.

    The Obama administration put the war spending back into the budget for its figures. In addition, other costs like health care for veterans won't be broken out clearly. So, I typically use the data released by the OMB in more recent years, as they include ALL the spending by ALL the Presidents, and 3rd parties (which do most of the hard work for you).

    Here's the FY2015 figures. What you want to look at for expenses are tables 3.1 and 3.2: http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/defa...ssets/hist.pdf

    And: Study: Iraq, Afghan war costs to top $4 trillion - The Washington Post


    Cite your source, debt of 10.6 trillion dollars on January 21, 2001 on a 14.5 trillion dollar economy is 73% and that isn't the 100+ % it is now.
    See the above OMB chart, and History of the United States public debt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    No matter how you slice it, the simple fact is that the debt did grow by a significant amount under Bush 43. That's what happens when you wage two wars, offer a new entitlement, and cut taxes at the same time. Even if you somehow believe he "only" increased it to 73%, then Bush 43 increased the debt-to-GDP ratio just as much as Obama, while Clinton actually reduced the debt-to-GDP ration by about 10%. Please, face facts.


    So what? what did the govt. do to deserve the benefits of someone else's investment success? You seem to not understand risk taking either.
    This is not about who deserves what. It's just a simple fact that the Bush tax cuts resulted in the federal government receiving significantly lower revenues, than if the cuts had not been enacted.


    Please stop posting any charts that show tax cuts having any relationship with deficits....
    Egads.

    OK, let's go over some basic budgeting.

    (Fiscal Year Revenues) - (Fiscal Year Expenditures) = Fiscal Year Deficits or Surpluses

    When you put in a tax cut, it means less revenues. When you have less revenues in a year with more expenditures than revenues, that's going to increase the deficit.

    It doesn't matter if you happen to cut taxes and, due to other factors, revenues go up. You are still collecting less in revenues than you would have, if you cut taxes.

    Get it?


    since tax cuts increased govt. revenue because they increased jobs. Show me that we would have had the same job creation without those tax cuts?
    'Kay

    The idea that "tax cuts increase tax revenues" simply does not apply here, because we are nowhere near the Laffer Curve.
    Economist's View: Yet Again, Tax Cuts Do Not Pay for Themselves
    No, New Tax Cuts Will Not Pay for Themselves | Economic Policy Institute
    Art Laffer Did Not Say Anything So Stupid As All Tax Cuts Pay For Themselves - Forbes

    Or, to put it another way:

    People don't hire employees because they got a break on estate taxes. CEO's definitely don't hire more people because of a cut in their personal tax rate; in fact, if laying people off boosts the stock price, and the CEO is compensated with stock, he is more likely to fire people because of a cut in capital gains taxes. If I own a small business, and I buy a bunch of IBM stock, and sell it 5 years later, and get a 5% break on capital gains, it's not likely to convince me to hire another employee at my business. A bank is not going to split off a high-frequency trading unit because of a 2% tax increase. A hedge fund manager is not going to close up shop because the carried interest tax rate on his personal income goes up 10%. I find it somewhat hard to believe that when you did your taxes in 2003, you saw that you'd save 5% on your personal income taxes compared to 2000, and on that basis decided to hire an additional staffer at your business.

    What drove the economy during the Bush 43 years? Mostly a real estate and financial bubble, which was well under way before Congress enacted the Bush tax cuts. The economic benefits of the Bush tax cuts did not spark that bubble.


    Oh, good Lord, you believe the govt. keeps costs down? This is the same entity that generated a 17.5 trillion dollar debt. You really don't realize how foolish you sound and have no understanding of the data you post.
    No, I understand that this is exactly how Medicare works, and it's how single-payer systems work around the world. I also recognize that you're engaging in the fallacy of composition.


    Most done within the Defense department budget which again you don't understand.
    egads

    Again: I am talking about aggregate spending. It doesn't matter that Bush kept the war spending out of the DOD budget, it doesn't matter that some defense spending is discretionary while some is non-discretionary. None of that matters.


    LOL Obama had a Democrat Congress that could have eliminated those tax cuts if he really believed they caused the deficits....
    No, they really couldn't. The Republicans would have undoubtedly filibustered any attempt to retire the cuts early, and extending them was part of the 2010 relief package.


    Still waiting for any justification for having Medicare and SS on budget?
    And I'm waiting for you to recognize that the figures you're citing as the 2015 $3.9 trillion budget INCLUDE SOCIAL SECURITY AND MEDICARE.


    You will never see inflation with this many people unemployed, under employed, and discouraged.
    I'm sorry, but statements like this make it obvious that you don't understand economics. Inflation induced by a government printing up money, and using it to pay the government's bills, will undoubtedly cause inflation regardless of other macroeconomic conditions. In fact, that type of inflationary pressure will cause other problems like unemployment. We see exactly this in Zimbabwe, where Mugabe printed up currency to pay for government expenditures.


    Please name for me one predication made by this Administration that has been accurate
    Again, read my post. These types of economic analyses and predictions are not being put out by the Obama administration.

  10. #280
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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Yeah, I live in a state with the 11th largest economy in the WORLD and we had a bad winter here just like apparently you did. The difference is the state of TX has a part time legislature, low taxes, pro growth economic policies and a strong economy. Seems to work here so why not in your state or the nation. Any idea what Obama's results would be without TX?
    Obama's results? Do you seriously believe that any president has that much control over a country? You've got to be kidding me. It was a horrible winter and a lot of people died here. I can easily believe that the economy took a hit because of it. Just like the economy would take a hit if there was a hurricane or a tornado. I don't know why you think there's any correlation between a Texas winter that had 4 days that were below 32 degrees for the entire 24 hours and a Minnesota winter that had 58 days below ZERO! You guys had four days that were below 32 and we had 23 in January alone (the other days got up to 32 or 33 for a few hours). Your winter forced you to wear a jacket, ours forced us to stop living our lives for three months. We had 60 inches of snow.

    There was one winter in the 80s that was, supposedly, as bad for the US as a whole. It was the winter of 1981-1982. And the economy fell more than 6% after that winter, so maybe that's not the best example. But unlike you, I wouldn't think Reagan had anything to do with that, because Presidents are mainly sock puppets and have very little control over the country.
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