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Thread: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q[W:487:681]

  1. #201
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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    That's what partisans do. Just like you glossing over the fact that Reagan tripled the ND borrowing more money than any president before him. Now I'll criticise the Obama administration. His action in Libya as well as his ongoing drone program is unethical as well as a violation of IL. He has done absolutely nothing to fix the economy that Bush broke. Now you man up and criticise the the GOP or are you just another right wing partisan hack?
    Man up and criticize the GOP? LOL! What, for your "above it all" approval? Anyone that does not adhere to the principles of Constitution has my criticism. That's 100% of the Democrats and about 90% of the Republicans.

    You know why we can gloss over Reagan's spending? Did you take a look at what he accomplished? A booming economy and good bye Soviet Union. Not quite the same as today, eh? Not much of a payoff (at least for us) from all the $trillions that Obama has buried us with.

    Oh, and you need to brush up on the CRA if you think Bush broke the economy. His mistake was too much spending (though a mere pittance compared to Obama) and the TARP bailout.
    "We have met the enemy and they are ours..." -- Oliver Hazard Perry
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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    The OP/FOX article continues:

    "..Data such as employment, manufacturing and services sectors point to a Sharp Acceleration in growth Early in the Second quarter. However, the pace of expansion could fall short of expectations, which range as high as a 3.6% rate.

    Economists estimate severe weather could have slashed as much as 1.5% points from GDP growth in the first quarter."..."
    Interesting how the article indicates only half of the decline can be accounted for by weather. What people are not contemplating for the current quarter is the effect of pent-up demand. The weather would have also had an effect in that respect and it means a significant amount of economic activity that was going to occur was instead pushed into the second quarter. When you do that it distorts the data to make it look more cheery than it is in reality since they play havoc with seasonal adjustments and annualization. A massive increase in manufacturing and services does not inherently indicate an increase in general real demand and could even be masking a continuing decline. Worse yet, the big upticks may not have made it into the current month. The result could very well be a worse-than-expected decrease for June since these are month-over-month figures.
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  3. #203
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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by Mustachio View Post
    Where do you live? I'm from Minnesota, where we had the worst winter ever. Most snow and most freezing days in my lifetime, and there was only one other winter in the last 4 decades that compared - it was in the early '80s. So do I believe that the winter had an effect on the economy? Of course I do - I saw it for myself. Everybody in this state just stayed at home, that will obviously have a detrimental effect on the economy. And I know that what happened here happened in other states as well.

    You are basing your conclusions despite the facts, not on the facts. "Wealth redistribution?" Seriously? What are you even talking about?
    The winter of 2010 was much worse,not as cold.....But the blizzard that took out the Metrodome roof was much worse than anything we got this last winter lol
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  4. #204
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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony60 View Post
    Man up and criticize the GOP? LOL! What, for your "above it all" approval? Anyone that does not adhere to the principles of Constitution has my criticism. That's 100% of the Democrats and about 90% of the Republicans.

    You know why we can gloss over Reagan's spending? Did you take a look at what he accomplished? A booming economy and good bye Soviet Union. Not quite the same as today, eh? Not much of a payoff (at least for us) from all the $trillions that Obama has buried us with.

    Oh, and you need to brush up on the CRA if you think Bush broke the economy. His mistake was too much spending (though a mere pittance compared to Obama) and the TARP bailout.
    Bus doubled the ND and Obama is on course to do it again. Both parties are burying us! That's the point, I can go with 90/100 that's still basically all of them. Time for change we can really believe in.

    And you conveniently ignore the FACT that Reagan repented of his suffocating debt!!
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  5. #205
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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Only people who ignore history and actual data echo your comments. You don't get it as don't most people like you. when you have 2.8 trillion in debt on a 5.3 trillion dollar economy that debt is insignificant. You love to use the term tripling the debt ignoring the raw numbers and the benefits generated from that debt. Doubt seriously that would be a problem today if Obama created 17 million jobs, you think? What is it about personal responsibility and the private sector that creates such resentment? Could it be that you cannot compete?
    You too conveniently ignored that Reagan himself repented of his staggering debt contribution. But I'm not surprised.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Visbek;1063450077]I have to say, this is the most scrambled thing you've said so far.

    You claimed that "debts prevent people from spending," and I showed how this is not actually the case. A mortgage is a debt, and treating it as an investment is actually a bit of a mistake, and a way of thinking which exacerbated the recent real estate bubble. (In short, if that's how you think about it, then it's like taking out a loan to invest in the stock market.) A mortgage is debt, plain and simple, and it's only a problem if you can't make your payments.
    No I didn't, I said that debt service has to be paid and you cannot do that without a job. Mortgage is a debt on an asset that you speculated would increase in value.. That value increase is an increase in net worth. Nice attempt at diversion

    Now, I do agree that non-mortgage debt can influence spending habits -- but again, it's not because "you've got debt," it's based on your ability to pay off those debts.
    It is all about the ability to service that debt and when you cannot print money like the Govt. does and cannot meet your debt service you have a serious problem and will lose your biggest asset. How big does the debt have to get before it bothers people like you? Obviously exceeding 100% of GDP isn't the number

    I am glad to hear, though, that you do finally accept that bad weather can depress GDP because consumers are less likely to go out and buy stuff.
    Amazing, isn't it that this is the only year in history with bad weather. Show me another winter quarter with that bad of a GDP number?

    Errm.... Federal deficits (and surpluses) are based on the discrepancies between revenues and expenditures. It doesn't matter if appropriations are handled via an omnibus bill or a collection of appropriations bills, what matters is the amounts spent and received during the Federal government's fiscal year.
    Yep and every year we have had a deficit except in the liberal world where you can take from SS and Medicare, leave an IOU, and claim a budget surplus. Try that in your own finances.

    The US was still spending on military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan well into Obama's term, and winding those wars down has helped reduce deficits. It is highly unlikely that anyone in the office of President could have ended it any sooner.
    Yes, we had expenditures signed by Obama for the Iraq and Afghanistan wars and Obama expanded the Afghanistan War knowing that people like you would blame Bush for the deficit. What Obama did was turn victory into defeat as is normal for liberals. It doesn't matter a 3.9 trillion dollar budget will not lower the deficit. Again, why do we need a 3.9 trillion dollar Federal Govt. and 50 state governments? You want all money to go to D.C. and have them send you what they think you need?

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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Continued reply

    I also find it rather amusing that you attribute no responsibility to Bush for the consequences of his decision to invade Iraq, but problems in Iraq after the US left are wholly the responsibility of Obama. That's rather selective of you.
    I find it not amusing but sad that you don't understand that the cost of the Iraq War was funded yearly and is part of the 10.6 trillion dollar debt handed to Obama. It is very selective listening and reading on your part not to understand the Status of Forces Agreement and why we now lost the war in Iraq. How much of the 6.8 trillion debt Obama has amassed came from the wars? You cannot seem to grasp that deficits are yearly and debt is cumulative. Obama's budgets did not balance and Obama signed the 2009-10-11-12 budgets with trillion dollar deficits

    I already did. Cutting taxes is not calculated as an "expense," nor did I say anything of the sort. If Bush hadn't cut taxes, then revenues would have been substantially higher than what we actually saw. It's not like Goldman Sachs was going to give out smaller bonuses because of changes to the estate tax, or the $500 check Bush mailed to taxpayers....
    So now it is the estate taxes that created the debt? Wow, you are all over the place and out of your league. What part of the income taxes increasing income tax revenue do you not understand? Better talk to the Treasury Dept because they show record revenue from income taxes in 2007

    Egads.
    Well stated, exactly my thoughts about your posts

    No matter how you slice it, Bush created a new entitlement (Medicare Part D), which will increase expenditures for decades to come. He also did it in such a way to increase costs to the taxpayer, because the law ruled out the ability of the government to negotiate drug costs with the pharmaceuticals.

    I am not, in any way, saying that "war spending isn't reflected in the deficit." It IS reflected in the deficit. It's that Bush 43's administration intentionally kept it out of the official budget figures.
    IT DOESN'T MATTER IF IT IS ON BUDGET OR OFF BUDGET, IT IS PART OF THE YEARLY DEFICIT!!! Wow, you liberals are something else. Did you bother to see what the Democrats proposed for Medicare Part D? Of course not because it doesn't matter that the reality is almost triple what the Republicans proposed. You believe the govt. negotiates good deals? Where is the incentive to do so?


    The Obama administration spent $130 billion in 2009 on the wars, and another $160 in 2010; Afghanistan was another $90 billion in 2011. Even if you think those wars were the right thing to do, the simple fact is that Obama inherited those conflicts, and their expenditures. It's unlikely he could have ended them any earlier.
    The simple fact is the war ended officially with the Status of Forces Agreement signed by Bush in 2008 with Iraq and Afghanistan is still ongoing and we are losing there now. Unbelievable how poorly informed liberals are and simply buy what they are told. Remove the entire cost of both Afghanistan and Iraq from 2009 to the Present and we still have trillion dollar deficits. Claims to the contrary are total ignorance

    Re-read my posts, I've been addressing as many of your questions as I possibly can.
    Basic question, why do we need a 3.9 trillion dollar Federal Govt?????

    To continue: Cutting taxes is clearly not a means to reduce government spending. This "Club for Growth" approach has completely backfired, because it is far, far easier to just borrow more money than to cut spending. Let's look at the 2004 budget, not including war spending:

    Social Security = 21.4% of the budget
    Medicare = 11.7%
    Military = 20%
    Interest = 6.7%

    Anyone who tries to cut any of these budgets is basically begging to be flayed alive. So, 60% of the 2004 budget was basically untouchable.
    Now there you go again, please tell me why SS and Medicare are on budget and even considered? those should be off budget and in that Al Gore lock box. Why aren't they?

    What about the rest? Almost everyone will say "the government spends too much," but what about the actual programs? It turns out people actually DON'T want anything cut, except for foreign aid -- which is less than 1% of the federal budget.

    There in lies the problem, political correctness and buying votes vs doing what is necessary and right. Personal responsibility is a lost art today


    It's not that I "expect to benefit." It's that everyone has a responsibility to contribute to the nation. In turn you have these weird things known as "representation" and "elected officials" and "legal protections" and all sorts of stuff. You also have the power to influence tax rates, and how your taxes are spent.

    We should also note, AGAIN, that tax rates have been falling steadily since the Reagan years, and even with Obama's very small tax increase are close to historic lows. I swear, there's no satisfying some people.
    Everyone isn't contributing, 50% of income earning families do not pay any Federal Income taxes. Aren't they part of everyone? Tax rates are irrelevant, effective rates are all that matters.

  8. #208
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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    You too conveniently ignored that Reagan himself repented of his staggering debt contribution. But I'm not surprised.
    You conveniently ignored what that debt generated

  9. #209
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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    You conveniently ignored what that debt generated
    You can't even admit failure when you've been shown that the man who tripled our national debt and strapped it to the backs of American citizens for a generation or more repented of it. Your stubborn, ill grant you that.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    You can't even admit failure when you've been shown that the man who tripled our national debt and strapped it to the backs of American citizens for a generation or more repented of it. Your stubborn, ill grant you that.
    I am sorry, I don't call creating 17 million jobs, having 7% GDP growth that actually doubled GDP, having a 60% increase in Income tax revenue, creating a peace dividend a failure, why would you? You do realize that Reagan debt was 50% of GDP?

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