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Thread: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q[W:487:681]

  1. #161
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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    To repeat myself, both parties have failed us. A new party built on the interests of Main Street not Wall Street is the solution. But until there are more fed Americans than there are partisans, there's little hope. Ron and Rand tried/try to work from within the party, but that won't do it.
    What do you mean 'fed Americans?' Are you saying the only hope for this country is socialism?

    FYI: Rand Paul is NOT a socialist. He is a very well paid physician who went into politics to protect the income of himself and other well paid physicians.
    Redneck, hillbilly, fundie, Bible thumper, cracker, split tails, geezer, loon, xenophobe, islamaphobe, and homophobe are not words of tolerance.

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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by APACHERAT View Post
    What numbers were cooked ?

    Remember in 1960 and JFK ran on a "missile gap" ?

    Ends up there was no missile gap. But close to half of America believed JFK and with the help of corpse's in Cook County, Ill. JFK became POTUS in 61 and soon gave us the Vietnam War.
    The number of months before Saddam had a delivery system for the nuclear warhead he didn't have that would create a mushroom cloud over a US city! Dude, stop being a partisan and start carrying the truth, that both parties are destroying America.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  3. #163
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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by Maenad View Post
    What do you mean 'fed Americans?' Are you saying the only hope for this country is socialism?

    FYI: Rand Paul is NOT a socialist. He is a very well paid physician who went into politics to protect the income of himself and other well paid physicians.
    Pardon me, of course I meant fed up American's. The growing number of independents is proof that there are plenty. They just still think they are bound to work within the two party system as though its sacred. Well its not. The Wig party was dumped and it can happen again.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by Maenad View Post
    What do you mean 'fed Americans?' Are you saying the only hope for this country is socialism?

    FYI: Rand Paul is NOT a socialist. He is a very well paid physician who went into politics to protect the income of himself and other well paid physicians.
    I never claimed Rand Paul is a socialist!!!! What's wrong with you. I like Rand Paul, I'm just pointing out that he will effect no change trying to work within the GOP.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    Nice to meet you bro.
    Likewise!! Though we met long ago, probably when I pointed out that your avatar is a picture from the fort at Old San Jaun.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  6. #166
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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Visbek;1063449333]I see no indication that people "stop spending" because of high debts. If I'm paying $2500 in rent, and I wind up paying $2500 for a mortgage, it's not going to significantly change my spending habits. It's only when the payments for the debt grow too great that there's an issue.
    Spending on a home is an investment and if you bought a home you refinanced at lower rates and your monthly profit demand went down. There is long term and short term debt and it is consumer spending that is the largest component of GDP. Bad weather affects short term debt not long term debt and as you claimed consumer spending went up, not down. People cannot get out during bad weather and that should affect consumer spending. Again, get your nose out of the book and get out and find out what is going on.



    That's because in this case, Bush 43 bears a lot of responsibility for the current deficit situation.
    Again, you have no clue as to what you are talking about, deficits are yearly and based upon the yearly budget. Bush hasn't had a budget since fiscal year 2008. Stop making a fool out of yourself. Bush ended the Iraq War with the Status of Force Agreement and Obama has lost the peace but Obama did increase the costs of the so called "good war" in Afghanistan

    Do you really deny that Bush policies resulted in 2 wars, big tax cuts, and a new Medicare benefit? Do you really deny that Obama inherited the worst recession in over 70 years? Do you really not understand that Obama cut those huge deficits roughly in half?
    Of course I don't deny that Bush cut taxes but that isn't an expense to the govt. and increased income tax revenue. How do you explain that? The new Medicare benefit was less than the Democrats wanted and has cut Medicare expenses, the two wars have been funded and are part of the Bush deficits. The war was funded yearly either on budget or off budget but both are part of the deficits. You cannot seem to comprehend that reality



    The huge gap in income inequality isn't a result of individual effort and choice. It's a result of government policies, which mean the wealthy keep more of their gains; and 40 years of stagnant wages for most Americans.

    BS, you mean like liberal policies that allow support for unions whose management does nothing but makes six digit salaries? What country do you live in where you believe individual effort and hard work should go to someone else? Why shouldn't people keep more of what they earn as that means they don't need a 3.9 trillion dollar Federal Govt. You never respond to the tough questions because as a liberal it is easier to run from them.

    Low capital gains taxes means keeping more assets, which means more income. Lower estate taxes mean high earners keep more assets, which in turn increases their income. Cutting benefits for the poor means reducing their income, and exacerbating the divide.
    So what? they took the risk and deserve the rewards. You seem to care more about what someone else makes or pays in taxes vs. going out and getting a bigger piece of the pie so you can pay more to those you believe need your help

    Do you really need me to explain it to you? You claim to know so much more than me about economics...
    Yes, unfortunately you need to explain it to me, why do you expect to benefit from someone's else's blood, sweat, and tears? The entitlement society is alive and well living inside you

  7. #167
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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    I never claimed Rand Paul is a socialist!!!! What's wrong with you. I like Rand Paul, I'm just pointing out that he will effect no change trying to work within the GOP.
    What did you mean by 'fed people?'
    Redneck, hillbilly, fundie, Bible thumper, cracker, split tails, geezer, loon, xenophobe, islamaphobe, and homophobe are not words of tolerance.

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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Visbek;1063449300]Yes, they fund Social Security. And a payroll tax cut is still a tax cut.
    Why is SS on budget and used for anything other than SS? Cutting in funding for SS is a good thing in your world? Is that what you expect when you put money into your own retirement plan?


    a) Yes, of course I understand what a rebate is.
    b) It helped cushion the blow when the economy was at a particularly rough patch, by getting people to spend, and via mechanisms with high multipliers. You DO know what a multiplier is, right? And why something like unemployment benefits, or a $400 break on your paycheck, tends to have a higher multiplier...?
    c) The payroll tax cut was never intended as a long-term stimulus. It was always meant to be temporary, which is why it expired already.
    It did nothing but cushion support for Obama and that seems to be what you want. The payroll tax cut actually cut what people are putting into a retirement account that has been raided. You don't seem to understand that



    Where are you getting this "long term" requirement from? These tax cuts were always intended to be short-term, as was the spending. The long-term effects are indirect, namely they helped cushion the economy a little bit in the worst periods.
    Tax cuts allow people to keep more of what they earn. You have a problem with that concept, move to another one with higher taxes since obviously you believe the govt. needs the money more than you do if you even work



    So... in your opinion, a tax cut isn't a tax cut if it only applies to some people?
    Every income earning American got a tax cut meaning they kept more of what they earn. You have a problem with that since you believe all money belongs to the govt. and thus it is an expense to allow people to keep more of it.


    Uh, no. Not even close. It was a big tax rebate ($8000 at its peak), which you'd lose if you sold the home in less than 3 years. By the time the rebate was in place, banks had already increased lending standards because of the excesses during the real estate bubble. It also was a big boost for real estate, as noticed when people were basically trying to buy before the credit expired.
    Homes are long term investments, I have lost nothing if the value of my home goes down and I don't sell. A tax rebate for first time homeowners still require those people to make monthly payments and they have to have a job to do that



    Sorry, but it's you.
    Your opinion noted but you have shown no evidence that you understand what you are posting but rather posting what you are told

    I've studied quite a bit of economics, including how and why a stimulus is supposed to work, why it's patently ridiculous to insist that a tax cut must be long-term in order to have any affect, how government budgets work, how bubbles form and perpetuate, how a lack of regulation in many key areas caused the last recession, and how limited governments are in terms of creating private sector jobs.
    Depends on where you believe the money belongs. You think with your heart instead of your brain. Who do you think the housing bubble helped, Democrats or Republicans? It was Clinton who created the sub prime loans.


    OBVIOUSLY. In that case, it meant a one-year break for anyone bumping into AMT territory.
    So what good did it do?


    Your attempts to deflect are failing.
    Facts always get in the way of liberal rhetoric

    You are the one claiming that GDP growth of $1.7 trillion in recent years is due to an $850 billion stimulus, 1/3 of which is *cough* short-term tax cuts. You should explain your claim in more detail.
    No I am not, the growth in GDP is anemic and only people with low expectations believe that anemic growth is a good thing. In 8 years Bush generated 4.5 trillion in GDP growth and that wasn't good enough enough for liberals


    What the...?

    I do like this country. I really don't see why "keeping offspring on parent's insurance" indicates that anyone "hates America" or is a disincentive to get a job. Rather, it's an expedient method to expand insurance coverage.
    Greatest country on the face of the earth and you are trying to destroy it. Political correctness run amuck and wealth redistribution has our Fore Fathers turning over in their graves.


    I think that there really isn't much that a government can do to encourage hiring. An employer isn't going to take on an employee who will cost him $50,000 a year just to get a $2,500 tax cut. We can't force companies to keep employees in the US. We can't force companies not to automate jobs.
    You have no idea what it costs to hire, train, and provide full benefits to an employee. What exactly does it cost an employer to hire someone under Obama policies? If you don't know then you know why employers aren't hiring.



    The VA actually did a pretty good job overall until the last ~10 years. For decades, they had one of the best hospital systems in the US. The root of their problems extend across multiple administrations.
    Yes, and Obama said he would solve the problem, another promise broken.

    As to the tasks, I'd say they include: Defense, police, courts, oversight of industries, education, managing roads, handling parks, providing services for the poor, doing R&D. They actually do a pretty good job of it -- in many cases, better than the private sector. I might add that lots of governments do a good job of providing health care for their citizens.
    Do you have any idea what your taxes fund? When you get a job you will. When you buy gasoline what part of that is taxes and what do they fund? What exactly does your state and local community do and why does a bureaucrat in D.C. know better than a local bureaucrat on how to handle a local problem?



    Do you understand that in 1790, the total US population was less than 4 million people? About half of US states have a larger population today than the entire US in 1790.
    Do you realize that in 1965 we had a budget of about 250 billion dollars for a population of 175 million people and today Obama wants a 3.9 TRILLION budget for 312 million?



    Well, one reason is that people want benefits and services, and don't want to pay for them. Both Democrats and Republicans are willing to borrow to meet those demands. Republicans don't even want to collect taxes for those services.
    Why should tax dollars go to fund programs that the people don't want to pay for? Republicans don't want a massive central govt. neither did our forefathers.



    Actually, it's both. Small businesses are responsible for about half of all US employees.
    It is those 50% that are the ones hurting and the ones Obama and people like you are destroying

    Uh, no, they're counted. BLS uses the Current Population Survey to determine unemployment. There's a separate statistic for people who are collecting unemployment benefits.
    Wrong, small businesses and contract employees aren't counted

  9. #169
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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Well there is a history that extreme weather events can lead to lower turnout by consumers, lower production by workers whose job requires being outside, and backlogs in shipping.

    The extreme weather events took place in the north east which is one of the largest economic centers in the US.

    I'm just looking at it impartially. Why does everything have to about the President? We've had multiple years of economic growth yet that one quarter is a result of liberal economic policies? How about the major decreases in economic growth while Bush was President? Was the a result of conservative economic policies?
    Yes there is, now tell me which year that was and when we had a negative GDP quarter.

    This President was unqualified to hold the office, we told you that, you bought the rhetoric now we are telling you, "see, told you so" It really is a shame because one of these days it is going to be too late to say I am sorry.

  10. #170
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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by LagerHead View Post
    I'm not even going to respond to the part about Keynesian economics. I wouldn't be able to begin to do it the justice it deserves, especially in the light of Hayek, Friedman, and the like. They have thoroughly trounced that garbage.

    As for the post WWII economic boom, do you think that maybe, just maybe, that boom MIGHT have been caused by the fact that every other economic superpower of the day had basically just been bombed into the stone age? Do you think that you too, even minus government intervention, might be able to see a boom if you were absent any competition in your chosen market, whether that is locally or globally? I think you might just be able to pull it off. And that is exactly what happened.

    Japan, Russia, Germany, England, hell, all of Europe, etc. were all rebuilding after the war. We weren't. Our factories were not only untouched, but were already operating in high gear. Our soldiers came back ready to hit the workforce. Practically everywhere else in the world soldiers went back and began rebuilding their countries. And where did they get the supplies to do so? From the sole remaining economic and manufacturing center left standing.

    So yea, we saw a bit of success after the war. But it certainly wasn't because of the government. It was because we were the only player in the game.
    So what exactly was the trade imbalance in dollars during that time. Link please.
    Redneck, hillbilly, fundie, Bible thumper, cracker, split tails, geezer, loon, xenophobe, islamaphobe, and homophobe are not words of tolerance.

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