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Thread: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q[W:487:681]

  1. #131
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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by Maenad View Post
    So what solutions would the resident anarchist offer up for the predicament in which we find ourselves?
    So now because I would prefer that Americans wake up to the reality that they have been and are being screwed by both parties and should scrap them and start anew, I'm an anarchist. How are you and I to have a conversation like that?
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    No previous administration was ever concerned with cooking the books?
    I can't think of any except maybe for the FDR administration.

    There was a time not to long ago that most Americans were informed enough that when the unemployment rate was released, you just doubled the numbers and you have a more accurate number of how many American are actually out of work. And there was no prior administration who had a problem with it. They didn't believe that Americans were stupid like the Obama administration does today.

    The one I like was the Obama White House presenting a cooked survey of the troops to Congress to repeal DADT.
    Funny that the Obama White House had the results of the troops survey before the survey was released to the troops to take. A criminal act ???
    This is how the Obama White House operates.

    You have to follow all of the links. -> DoD IG Report Exposes Improper Activities to Repeal Gays in Military Law - Search - Center for Military Readiness

    One Marine's View: Does the military really support DADT like the survey said?

  3. #133
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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    What have you missed here? I have denounced both parties, and most recently in the post you just quoted, what's wrong with you man?
    I must have missed all the times you took a Conservative position on anything, except maybe gun control.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  4. #134
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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Yeah, did you even consider that you could be wrong about liberal economic policies? You think we didn't have bad winters after the 81-82 recession? What was the economic growth during those bad winters? Since consumer spending makes up over 2/3 of GDP it doesn't seem that the extreme winter kept them from buying. Why is that?

    Are you ever going to admit that Obama has made a fool out of you? Why do you continue to carry water for this incompetent? Why such low expectations from a liberal President?
    Well there is a history that extreme weather events can lead to lower turnout by consumers, lower production by workers whose job requires being outside, and backlogs in shipping.

    The extreme weather events took place in the north east which is one of the largest economic centers in the US.

    I'm just looking at it impartially. Why does everything have to about the President? We've had multiple years of economic growth yet that one quarter is a result of liberal economic policies? How about the major decreases in economic growth while Bush was President? Was the a result of conservative economic policies?
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Conservatives didn't portray him with a halo in the media though did they.
    The only time I hear messiah associated with the president is from conservatives.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Why wouldn't they?
    I take it that's a joke question and I don't need to link examples of the times republicans have raised taxes.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    You really are hopeless, try to understand that the deficit is made up of two parts, public debt and intergovt. holdings which includes SS and Medicare....
    Read the Fact Check. Both including and excluding SS, there was a surplus in the Clinton years. Nor did Bush 43 change the accounting methods at all. No matter how you slice it, Bush 43 wound up generating higher deficits than Clinton.


    I am still waiting for you to explain to me how you keeping more of what you earn is an expense to the govt?
    I never said it was an "expense." To oversimplify, the government has REVENUES and EXPENDITURES. When you cut taxes, then revenues fall. When there's a recession and aggregate income falls, then revenues fall.


    Can you explain to me how in 2007 with the Bush tax cuts in place that we had record income tax revenue?
    Sure. We were in a huge financial and real estate bubble, which generated lots of income. When the bubble burst -- as the Bush administration should have known, though I do accept that it would have been extremely difficult and politically painful for them to do much about it -- revenues fell through the floor.

    Can you explain to me how during the Bush years, we had record income tax revenue, and the deficits shot through the roof? It's not like Bush 43 radically changed the way Social Security was managed.


    Only in the liberal world is human behavior ignored.
    On the contrary, at least a few progressives recognize the importance of behavioral economics, and the limits (and strengths) of classical economics.


    You seem to think that the economy would continue to create jobs in spite of tax policy and that the revenue generated by the tax cuts would have happened without them. Prove it?
    It depends on the tax cut.

    Let's say the President passes a tax cut that makes you pay an extra $2500 per year to hire someone. That's going to influence your hiring practices. In fact, it's going to influence you more than getting an annual $2500 tax credit for hiring that same employee.

    Or, let's say you increase taxes for low income earners. In addition to making life difficult for those low earners, they're going to spend less, which (due to the multiplier effect) means less economic activity in the broader sense. That might affect hiring.

    But not all tax cuts work the same way. Higher earners have increasingly marginal effects for a tax cut. If you earn $25,000 a year and you have to pay an extra $2500 in taxes, it's going to hurt. If you earn $250,000 a year and you have to pay an extra $2500, you won't be happy but it won't make you homeless. If you earn $2,500,000 a year, you won't even notice -- especially if your $250/hour accountant can escape that tax obligation.

    High earners are also individuals are already earning far more than any reasonable needs, and their surplus funds are mostly being hoarded -- e.g. as stock holdings, maybe in real estate. Some of those funds will also leave the US. The effects on investment for raising capital gains, or by increasing the top marginal tax rate by 5%, are going to be very small.

    Now, if we were at top marginal tax rates of 80%, and the President says "I'd like another 5% of that kthx," then that's a big problem, because you're basically at Laffer Curve territory. Those wealthy people will start taking action, and maybe that will have an effect. A 35% top marginal tax rate, however, is nowhere near Laffer Curve territory. It's not going to raise revenues much, but it also isn't going to "kill jobs."

  8. #138
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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Well there is a history that extreme weather events can lead to lower turnout by consumers, lower production by workers whose job requires being outside, and backlogs in shipping.

    The extreme weather events took place in the north east which is one of the largest economic centers in the US.

    I'm just looking at it impartially. Why does everything have to about the President? We've had multiple years of economic growth yet that one quarter is a result of liberal economic policies? How about the major decreases in economic growth while Bush was President? Was the a result of conservative economic policies?
    And it wan't even just the Northeast. The Midwest and ie, Chicago had it's coldest winter Ever (or in decades).

    Chicago Just Had Its Coldest Winter In History. Here's Proof.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...n_5078201.html

    I'd estimate well more than Half the country's consumers who were not only shut in more, but spending Much more on heating oil etc.
    I'm personally sick of not being able to dunk a basketball because of racism.
    anon

  9. #139
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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    I'm not even going to respond to the part about Keynesian economics. I wouldn't be able to begin to do it the justice it deserves, especially in the light of Hayek, Friedman, and the like. They have thoroughly trounced that garbage.

    As for the post WWII economic boom, do you think that maybe, just maybe, that boom MIGHT have been caused by the fact that every other economic superpower of the day had basically just been bombed into the stone age? Do you think that you too, even minus government intervention, might be able to see a boom if you were absent any competition in your chosen market, whether that is locally or globally? I think you might just be able to pull it off. And that is exactly what happened.

    Japan, Russia, Germany, England, hell, all of Europe, etc. were all rebuilding after the war. We weren't. Our factories were not only untouched, but were already operating in high gear. Our soldiers came back ready to hit the workforce. Practically everywhere else in the world soldiers went back and began rebuilding their countries. And where did they get the supplies to do so? From the sole remaining economic and manufacturing center left standing.

    So yea, we saw a bit of success after the war. But it certainly wasn't because of the government. It was because we were the only player in the game.

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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by Verax View Post
    Permanent success? Seriously?

    No the government can't fix the economy as in it can't change the circumstances it can only make the best of them. Considering how screwed up everything was they did a pretty good job of crisis management. Like I said I would have preferred to just let the banks fail at any cost but, we didn't. If you expected the government to turn the depression around into high GDP growth YOY you're dreaming. We went for a structured failure which meant a decade of paying for it with the same overlords staying in power at the cost of the middle class and the benefit of the ownership class.



    Golden age of capitalism
    Keynesian economics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Things were screwed up because of the government. The government didn't manage anything.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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