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Thread: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q[W:487:681]

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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    Yeah, there was. There really was. The total debt didn't fall much, but there is no question that under Clinton, the US government took in more revenues than it spent; and the opposite is true of the Bush years.



    I do know the components of GDP, and I do understand the deficit. I also know that Bush left war spending out of the official budgets; how he cut taxes during wartime, and so forth.



    I assume you're referring to progressive taxes. That's pretty simple.
    • Taxes hurt poorer people far more than they do higher incomes.
    • Yes, progressive taxes do help balance out income inequality.
    • Wealthy people also have resources to reduce their actual tax burden, that poor people do not.



    If Republicans are so dedicated to shrinking spending, then why do they keep increasing government spending?



    Progressives also recognize that cutting taxes does NOT increase tax revenues, unless tax rates are already at the top of the Laffer Curve. So, when top marginal tax rates were very high, it made sense to cut them a bit. Now that they are in the 30-35% range, cutting taxes any further will not result in increases in tax revenues.

    Another thing progressives have figured out is that trickle-down economics doesn't work, and is a joke. The wealthy tend to hoard their cash, rather than put it to work, especially in a recession. Mind you, I don't necessarily fault them for doing so, it's a normal reaction. It just means that trickle-down is based on a flawed interpretation of economic behavior.



    Yes, Bush 43 did a great job, hence his high approval ratings. Oh wait...



    Actually, I believe we should slash defense spending, keep using policies to rein in health care spending, raise the age at which Social Security can be collected, and make a few moderate tax increases. We need to BOTH cut spending AND increase revenues.

    We should also note that taxing the top 1% will not single-handedly solve federal budget issues. However, what it will do -- along with a few adjustments to the estate tax -- is tamp down income inequality.



    I think I already have. Bush 43 saddled him with tax cuts that the Republicans refused to change, Medicare Part D, and two very expensive wars. Obama also inherited the worst recession since the Great Depression. (Note: The recession was not primarily Bush 43's fault, but it's also obviously not Obama's either.) Or, in chart form:

    You really are hopeless, try to understand that the deficit is made up of two parts, public debt and intergovt. holdings which includes SS and Medicare. The unified budget was put into place by LBJ and actually took money from SS and Medicare and put it into the general fund meaning that the money put aside by you and all workers was being spent. Only in the liberal world is an IOU actual cash and has nothing to do with the debt. Wow, liberal economics are sure interesting. Sorry, that is exactly what happened during the Clinton years but is totally ignored by the media. If you take money from long term obligations does that reduce the long term obligations?

    I am still waiting for you to explain to me how you keeping more of what you earn is an expense to the govt? Still waiting, all I hear are crickets? Can you explain to me how in 2007 with the Bush tax cuts in place that we had record income tax revenue? Only in the liberal world is human behavior ignored. You seem to think that the economy would continue to create jobs in spite of tax policy and that the revenue generated by the tax cuts would have happened without them. Prove it?

  2. #92
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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    They were talking about this quarter though I think--2nd quarter--rather than next quarter. And from where I sit I think they seriously missed the mark on a 2nd quarter surge to 4%. We won't know what the 2nd quarter numbers are for some time. I am assuming that 2nd quarter means April - May - June.
    The -2.9% is for Q1 like the OP says, the 4% is what's being forecast for this quarter, Q2.

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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by Carjosse View Post
    The -2.9% is for Q1 like the OP says, the 4% is what's being forecast for this quarter, Q2.
    Okay, then I stand by what I said. I know a LOT of small business owners and also folks who are working for big corporations and they're all either hurting or expecting to be hurt. If there has been 4% growth this quarter, they sure aren't feeling it as they sweat out whether they'll have a job or if they will be able to keep the employees they have left.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by Verax View Post
    I don't agree with regard to laws and regulation, they could have stopped a lot of the worst things that the private sector caused. However instead since we didn't regulate them properly I really wish the government had let all the filthy banks that made bad bets eat **** and die back in 2008. I know people say the collateral damage would have been too horrendous, but now we're stuck with these crony capitalist organizations that know they will be bailed out no matter what they do.

    We could fix this problem either with regulation or letting them die, but instead we did neither and let them sit in the middle and get the best of both worlds riding on the back of the country.
    The government can't fix, nor maintain the economy with regulation, or cash infusion. Anyone that thinks it can is living in fantasyland.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    Yep.

    • Lots of individuals have more debts than their net worth -- most of it being a mortgage. That's not being fiscally irresponsible, as long as you can pay your mortgage on time.
    • Similarly, the US government can certainly make its payments, especially when interest rates are still near historical lows.
    • Unlike individual debts, governments are expected to have debts that roll over and continue into perpetuity.
    • It turns out that high debts don't stifle economic growth. Reinhart and Rogoff made some fatal errors in their claims. (You, uh, do know what I'm talking about, yes? )
    • Many of the debts are actually due to Bush 43's policies and the recession. He cut taxes during wartime (which is unprecedented), he created a whole new entitlement (Medicare Part D). Tax revenues usually fall during a recession, while the need to spend increases.



    Actually, his rating isn't that much lower than most of his tenure, it's better than Bush 43 at the same point in his tenure, and comparable to Bush 41. Some of it is policies, some is economics, some is personality. And his approval rating is insufficient to prove that he is "tanking the economy" -- as is one quarter of negative GDP growth.



    The gap between the rich and the poor has been growing mostly because of Bush 43 tax cuts, which got locked in, and for which Republicans were nearly willing to fight to the death to protect. How you imagine that is Obama's fault is beyond me....
    I think that 'gap' is fueled by the number of baby boomers who are retiring, now, and living on the Social Security. I believe, due to this one thing, that 'gap' is artificial.
    Redneck, hillbilly, fundie, Bible thumper, cracker, split tails, geezer, loon, xenophobe, islamaphobe, and homophobe are not words of tolerance.

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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by Carjosse View Post
    The -2.9% is for Q1 like the OP says, the 4% is what's being forecast for this quarter, Q2.
    4%? That's a dream!
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Right, I've already expressed that our current state of affairs is Obama's fault, and you have conceded that his predecessors caused the problem to begin with. So together we have proved that neither party can govern, now we just have to get the rest on board so we can dispense with them both and build a new party that has you and me and every Americans interest and not just the corporate interest!
    Failing to remedy this problem IS Obama's fault. He promoted himself as one having all the answers. But he has done nothing except blame someone else for problems he claimed to know how to fix. And the ones he has fixed, one being namely the war in Iraq, have blown up in his sorry little face.
    Redneck, hillbilly, fundie, Bible thumper, cracker, split tails, geezer, loon, xenophobe, islamaphobe, and homophobe are not words of tolerance.

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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    A, he's not my golden boy, apparently you've missed my larger than life criticisms of him! And B,


    Bush Administration Blames Bill Clinton for Deficit

    Trish Ponder | Jul 28, 2008
    It’s not just me and you who don’t have enough money to go around. The Bush administration has pushed the government to the point of bankruptcy too. Starting Oct. 1, when the 2009 fiscal year begins, we are toast.

    We have just got to get somebody smart in the Oval Office again. America can’t survive another mean-spirited, half-wit puppet president.
    The White House on Monday predicted a record deficit of $490 billion for the 2009 budget year, a senior government official told CNN.

    The deficit would amount to roughly 3.5 percent of the nation’s $14 trillion economy.

    The official pointed to a faltering economy and the bipartisan $170 billion stimulus package that passed earlier this year for the record deficit.

    Bush Administration Blames Bill Clinton for Deficit*Pensito Review
    Well, if I have, then please accept my sincere apology. But I am simply amazed at the number of people who can see his blazing incompetence and still stick by him.
    Redneck, hillbilly, fundie, Bible thumper, cracker, split tails, geezer, loon, xenophobe, islamaphobe, and homophobe are not words of tolerance.

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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q | Fox Business

    Congratulations, Liberals, you are getting what you want, A European Socialist economy dependent on a Federal Govt. run by liberals and with more people dependent on that govt. for existence. This is exactly what you get when you elect and re-elect a totally unqualified individual to the highest office in the land, High unemployment, high debt, low economic growth are the new normal in this country
    Economists estimate severe weather could have slashed as much as 1.5 percentage points from GDP growth in the first quarter.
    Exports declined at a 8.9 percent rate, instead of 6.0 percent pace, resulting in a trade deficit that sliced off 1.53 percentage points from GDP growth. Weak export growth has been tied to frigid temperatures during the winter.
    Consumer spending, which accounts for more than two-thirds of U.S. economic activity, increased at a 1.0 percent rate.
    Did you go past the headline? I know conservatives tend to always talk about Obama being a messiah but he doesn't control the weather.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Did you go past the headline? I know conservatives tend to always talk about Obama being a messiah but he doesn't control the weather.
    Yeah, did you even consider that you could be wrong about liberal economic policies? You think we didn't have bad winters after the 81-82 recession? What was the economic growth during those bad winters? Since consumer spending makes up over 2/3 of GDP it doesn't seem that the extreme winter kept them from buying. Why is that?

    Are you ever going to admit that Obama has made a fool out of you? Why do you continue to carry water for this incompetent? Why such low expectations from a liberal President?

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