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Thread: Measles Hits Amish Communities, And U.S. Cases Reach 20-Year High

  1. #31
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    Re: Measles Hits Amish Communities, And U.S. Cases Reach 20-Year High

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Not all people can be vaccinated. Some children are too young, people who are allergic to a vaccine ingredient, someone immunocompromised or immunosuppressed due to transplants, chemotherapy, etc. Additionally, no vaccine is 100% effective. Some percentage of vaccinated people just don't develop the immunity, or the immunity can wear off.

    Herd immunity protects all of these people, but herd immunity fails to function unless a high enough percentage of the population is vaccinated.
    I see, so the rest of us should risk the complications that MMR vaccine can have to protect a very small number of people that have those specific issues.

    Btw, here's the CDC's list of the MMR vaccines side effects:

    Vaccines: Vac-Gen/Side Effects

    MMR vaccine side-effects
    (Measles, Mumps, and Rubella)
    What are the risks from MMR vaccine?
    A vaccine, like any medicine, is capable of causing serious problems, such as severe allergic reactions.
    The risk of MMR vaccine causing serious harm, or death, is extremely small.
    Getting MMR vaccine is much safer than getting measles, mumps or rubella.
    Most people who get MMR vaccine do not have any serious problems with it.

    Mild Problems
    Fever (up to 1 person out of 6)
    Mild rash (about 1 person out of 20)
    Swelling of glands in the cheeks or neck (about 1 person out of 75)
    If these problems occur, it is usually within 7-12 days after the shot. They occur less often after the second dose.

    Moderate Problems
    Seizure (jerking or staring) caused by fever (about 1 out of 3,000 doses)
    Temporary pain and stiffness in the joints, mostly in teenage or adult women (up to 1 out of 4)
    Temporary low platelet count, which can cause a bleeding disorder (about 1 out of 30,000 doses)

    Severe Problems (Very Rare)
    Serious allergic reaction (less than 1 out of a million doses)
    Several other severe problems have been reported after a child gets MMR vaccine, including:
    Deafness
    Long-term seizures, coma, or lowered consciousness
    Permanent brain damage

    These are so rare that it is hard to tell whether they are caused by the vaccine.
    This information was taken directly from the MMR VIS
    (This information taken from MMR VIS dated 4/20/12. If the actual VIS is more recent than this date, the information on this page needs to be updated.)
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  2. #32
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    Re: Measles Hits Amish Communities, And U.S. Cases Reach 20-Year High

    Quote Originally Posted by AliHajiSheik View Post
    So to keep communicable diseases from spreading, you are in favor of the government taking significant steps? Where would you have isolated all the people with HIV back in the day?
    "Back in the day" if our politicians had listened to the medical community instead of pandering for votes from the "Moral Majority" the AIDS pandemic would likely not be the clusterfudge it turned into.

  3. #33
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    Re: Measles Hits Amish Communities, And U.S. Cases Reach 20-Year High

    Quote Originally Posted by Tettsuo View Post
    I see, so the rest of us should risk the complications that MMR vaccine can have to protect a very small number of people that have those specific issues.

    Btw, here's the CDC's list of the MMR vaccines side effects:

    Vaccines: Vac-Gen/Side Effects
    Again this is a very damaging misconception. One of the primary reasons we vaccinate is to establish herd immunity to protect those who for a variety of reasons are not covered by the vaccine.

    1. There are several classes of people for whom vaccines are not an option or are temporarily not effective including people who have gone through chemotherapy, people who have severe allergies to a component of the vaccine, people with certain illnesses, some kinds of vaccines for pregnant women, very young children, etc. Herd immunity helps to protect these people.

    2. Vaccines do not have a 100% efficacy rate. Even our most effective vaccines like the two course measles schedule is 'only' 99% whereas some others go lower like rotavirus which can go down to 85%. If we broadly assume vaccines are 90-98% effective then you are still putting millions of people at risk. Once again herd immunity helps to protect those people.

    When vaccinations start to fall down to the lower 90th percentiles you seriously undermine our herd immunity and allow diseases to resurface. Choosing not to get vaccinate is selfish and puts the entire community at risk.

  4. #34
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    Re: Measles Hits Amish Communities, And U.S. Cases Reach 20-Year High

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    Again this is a very damaging misconception. One of the primary reasons we vaccinate is to establish herd immunity to protect those who for a variety of reasons are not covered by the vaccine.

    1. There are several classes of people for whom vaccines are not an option or are temporarily not effective including people who have gone through chemotherapy, people who have severe allergies to a component of the vaccine, people with certain illnesses, some kinds of vaccines for pregnant women, very young children, etc. Herd immunity helps to protect these people.

    2. Vaccines do not have a 100% efficacy rate. Even our most effective vaccines like the two course measles schedule is 'only' 99% whereas some others go lower like rotavirus which can go down to 85%. If we broadly assume vaccines are 90-98% effective then you are still putting millions of people at risk. Once again herd immunity helps to protect those people.

    When vaccinations start to fall down to the lower 90th percentiles you seriously undermine our herd immunity and allow diseases to resurface. Choosing not to get vaccinate is selfish and puts the entire community at risk.
    Clearly I understand what you're saying. Do you understand what I'm saying? There are risks involved for the person receiving the vaccine. Do you believe the risk/reward equation is great enough to mandate the MMR vaccine on people that don't want to take the risk involved with receiving the vaccine?
    A man without fear is a fool, a man that succumbs to his fear is a coward and a brave man acknowledges fear yet presses on.
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    Re: Measles Hits Amish Communities, And U.S. Cases Reach 20-Year High

    Quote Originally Posted by Tettsuo View Post
    Clearly I understand what you're saying. Do you understand what I'm saying? There are risks involved for the person receiving the vaccine. Do you believe the risk/reward equation is great enough to mandate the MMR vaccine on people that don't want to take the risk involved with receiving the vaccine?
    Yes. There are virtually no serious risks associated with the MMR vaccine. The worst adverse reaction is anaphylaxis and is virtually unheard of. Society has a compelling interest to retain herd immunity and protect those not covered by the vaccine.

  6. #36
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    Re: Measles Hits Amish Communities, And U.S. Cases Reach 20-Year High

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    Yes. There are virtually no serious risks associated with the MMR vaccine. The worst adverse reaction is anaphylaxis and is virtually unheard of. Society has a compelling interest to retain herd immunity and protect those not covered by the vaccine.
    I just posted the risks. Also, there's a breakdown of the risk. How can you say there are no risk? Do you need me to re-post the risks for you to review?
    A man without fear is a fool, a man that succumbs to his fear is a coward and a brave man acknowledges fear yet presses on.
    http://soulinblackandwhite.blogspot.com/

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    Re: Measles Hits Amish Communities, And U.S. Cases Reach 20-Year High

    Quote Originally Posted by Tettsuo View Post
    I just posted the risks. Also, there's a breakdown of the risk. How can you say there are no risk? Do you need me to re-post the risks for you to review?
    I very clearly said serious risk. The off chance of having glandular swelling or a low grade fever isn't a serious risk. The most common of the serious risks anaphylaxis (serious allergic reaction) is so rare that it is in less than one in a million cases which essentially relegates it to the realm of being unheard of. To re-iterate my point there are no serious risks associated with the MMR vaccine and society has a compelling interest in retaining our herd immunity.

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    Re: Measles Hits Amish Communities, And U.S. Cases Reach 20-Year High

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    "Hey let me expand your notion into a completely different and ridiculous measure and also ignore the fact that diseases differ from each other"
    "Hey let me disagree with your point in a snarky way and ignore the point about the implications of government being able to mandate treatment in responses to disease."

  9. #39
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    Re: Measles Hits Amish Communities, And U.S. Cases Reach 20-Year High

    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    "Back in the day" if our politicians had listened to the medical community instead of pandering for votes from the "Moral Majority" the AIDS pandemic would likely not be the clusterfudge it turned into.
    You must really hate when the government uses the impact of diseases and the number of people potentially impacted to based funding decisions. So do you rule out isolation as a means of fighting communicable diseases, or is that just pandering too?

    These are complex issues and have significant implications on many fronts.

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    Re: Measles Hits Amish Communities, And U.S. Cases Reach 20-Year High

    Quote Originally Posted by AliHajiSheik View Post
    You must really hate when the government uses the impact of diseases and the number of people potentially impacted to based funding decisions. So do you rule out isolation as a means of fighting communicable diseases, or is that just pandering too?

    These are complex issues and have significant implications on many fronts.
    What would have been the implications if smallpox and polio vaccinations hadn't been mandated?
    Give a man a fish and he can eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he can sit in a boat, drinking beer all day while you fool around with his Woman.

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