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Thread: Poor care at VA hospitals cost 1,000 veterans their lives, report says

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    Re: Poor care at VA hospitals cost 1,000 veterans their lives, report says

    Have I$$A go after the people at the Phoenix VA Hoswpital.
    Or would he be stepping on McCain's toes?
    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Politicians making political promises resulting in actual deaths of Americans will be dealt with. Stop making excuses.
    And where has McCain been with the VA, other than shooting off his mouth war-mongering and sustaining McConnell's filibuster ?
    Last edited by NIMBY; 06-26-14 at 11:41 AM.
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    Re: Poor care at VA hospitals cost 1,000 veterans their lives, report says

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Politicians making political promises resulting in actual deaths of Americans will be dealt with. Stop making excuses.
    That is true for a lot of things. But politicians making political promises that they do keep can result in actual deaths of Americans as well. That isn't an excuse, it is just simply fact. In reality, it wasn't the political promises that led to the actual deaths. It was the crappy system of healthcare we have. No political promises actually killed those vets. Stupid practices of government employees very well may have contributed to those deaths, but it wasn't the political promises that did this.
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    Re: Poor care at VA hospitals cost 1,000 veterans their lives, report says

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    Have I$$A go after the people at the Phoenix VA Hoswpital.
    Or would he be stepping on McCain's toes?

    And where has McCain been with the VA, other than shooting off his mouth war-mongering and sustaining McConnell's filibuster ?
    Question: Who is the head of the Veterans Administration and all cabinet level departments of the executive branch?

    A. Big Bird
    B. John McCain
    C. Barrack Obama
    D. George Bush
    E. Generic evil Republican

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    Re: Poor care at VA hospitals cost 1,000 veterans their lives, report says

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    That is true for a lot of things. But politicians making political promises that they do keep can result in actual deaths of Americans as well. That isn't an excuse, it is just simply fact. In reality, it wasn't the political promises that led to the actual deaths. It was the crappy system of healthcare we have. No political promises actually killed those vets. Stupid practices of government employees very well may have contributed to those deaths, but it wasn't the political promises that did this.
    Its an excuse-an inexcusable one. If thats good enough for you fine, but if not I dont see why you continue to defend it. Americans died because of our Presidents incompetence, yet again.

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    Re: Poor care at VA hospitals cost 1,000 veterans their lives, report says

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    In the US, medical errors kill about 98,000 people a year.

    Preventable Medical Errors

    An estimated 18,000-26,000 adults in the US die each year because they didn't have insurance to pay for medical procedures.

    Advocacy group: 26,000 die prematurely without health insurance – The Chart - CNN.com Blogs

    Over 26,000 annual deaths for uninsured: report | Reuters

    In fact, many of those veterans could have possibly been saved had they had either a) insurance so they didn't have to rely on the VA or b) access to affordable healthcare that was closer or able to see them sooner, again so they didn't have to rely on the overcrowded VA system.

    Plus, why only Obama? According to your article, those vets died over the last decade, not just the last 6 years. What about that other 4 years? What about the Congresses during that time, who actually fund the VA system, which was being overcrowded and forced to work with resources far below what they needed to actually care for all the vets that rely on them?

    “Over the past decade, more than 1,000 veterans may have died as a result of VA’s misconduct and the VA has paid out nearly $1 billion to veterans and their families for its medical malpractice.”

    Read more: Poor care at VA hospitals cost 1,000 veterans their lives, report says - Washington Times
    Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter
    In 1999, the Institute of Medicine published the famous “To Err Is Human” report, which dropped a bombshell on the medical community by reporting that up to 98,000 people a year die because of mistakes in hospitals.
    http://www.propublica.org/article/ho...n-us-hospitals

    Subtract the 1000 from this number and you will know how many die in private health care situations. No one gets up in arms over this. In fact, most people tend to agree with doctors that MDs' malpractice insurance is too expensive and that people should not be allowed to sue them.


    BUT.........


    The VA is part of the GOVERNMENT, so everyone goes ape **** when deaths due to neglect and/or malpractice happen, yet the number is only a tiny drop in the bucket if you look at the problem across the board. You give doctors a license to kill. Doctors will kill. It is DOCTORS in the VA who refuse to see an adequate number of people each day to keep the ball rolling. It is not clerks, or nurses, or techs. It is DOCTORS who will only see 3 patients a day, thus causing the huge backlog of patients who can't get appointments. And yes, I know. I've seen it.

    Why don't you become incensed over the 97,000 each year who die at the hands of private providers? Why do you insist in their case that 'tort reform' is necessary to keep them in practice? Why do you even WANT them in practice?
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    Re: Poor care at VA hospitals cost 1,000 veterans their lives, report says

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Yes, we do. However, we deserve more than being used by either side as a political talking piece.

    There is no more information available besides those raw numbers. Over the last 10 years, there are 21.2 million vets as of 2012. That would be .004% of vets died. The population of the US in 2012 was around 310M. That would mean that at 26000 people per year for 10 years, .08% of the population died from being uninsured. That means even percentage wise, less vets died waiting on a VA appointment than those who died because they aren't insured, many because it is just plain too expensive, despite them having jobs.

    Education does not provide better jobs automatically, despite some beliefs. You need experience, and that means working low wage crap jobs to get that experience. Many of those uninsured are the vets, since, if they had other insurance, they wouldn't need to rely fully on the VA for their care. And education takes time. It takes a couple of years to get even just an associates, which isn't going to get you a decent job by itself. Plus, if a person has health problems to begin with, then they are going to be limited on what jobs they can do.

    Many of those vets are part of the "uninsured" because they can't get decent jobs and neither party wants to give vets lifetime insurance without 20 years of service. So instead they offer them VA benefits for anything that can be connected to the service, and that's it for most. We wouldn't have had this problem if they had either a) insurance rather than relying on the VA or b) UHC, since then they could simply get an appointment locally to them. My husband and I were talking about it yesterday. If they really wanted to fix the system, they could simply put all vets, no matter their years of service on TriCare (use years of service and/or means testing to determine who gets what kind), which could divert funding for those who determine who is eligible for what when it comes to VA medicine and service connected disabilities, and open up VA hospitals as priority treatments centers for vets and military, just as military hospitals and centers are open now. This also allows for the option of having a local PCM rather than having to go to those VA or military facilities.
    Frankly, I don't give a **** about the non-veterans and they really have nothing to do with the VA Healthcare system. Each and every able bodied adult with a "sound" mind is responsible for themselves, the society has no responsibility towards them unless, like Veterans, they have provided particular service to the society. The less you give someone for free, the more they are motivated to get off their asses and do for themselves.

    True, education does not always help. If you waste your time with a BS degree that has few or no job openings, then your justs as stupid as not taking any education. However, if you choose education in employable areas, you will always better yourself. Maybe not immediately, but working a crap job to get experience to move up is a hell of a lot better than working a crap job with no chance of advancement.
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

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    Re: Poor care at VA hospitals cost 1,000 veterans their lives, report says

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    He could start with the VA bill that still hasn't cleared congress.
    The very same bill that his party filibustered several months ago.
    Which could have been paid by the Cruz Gov't shutdown.

    He knows little of what VA hospitals like Hines VA in the Chicago suburb of Maywood were going through in 2008.
    I do since my elderly WW2 Dad was there at the same time.

    Adding tens of thousands of maimed Veterans to an already overloaded VA system
    must have been an unintended consequence of Iraq-2 which he wanted to go on in petpetuity .
    You mean the bill to dump more money into the system without fixing other problems? Like the fact that many of the problems at VA Hospitals were not lack of funding but positions that were funded but left unfilled. Administrative procedures that delay care.

    That bill was nothing but an act by the Dems to try to mitigate the fallout from the scandals. Even the VA has told them money was not the issue in many of the cases. Sure, more facilities would be nice. But then, how do we pay for it? Interesting how the left is screaming about the right blocking the bill but you don't see the left fessing up cuts to their vote buying schemes to pay for it.
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

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    Re: Poor care at VA hospitals cost 1,000 veterans their lives, report says

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    You mean the bill to dump more money into the system without fixing other problems? Like the fact that many of the problems at VA Hospitals were not lack of funding but positions that were funded but left unfilled. Administrative procedures that delay care.
    How do you propose to fill those positions called Doctors and Nurses?
    I have shown an easy outline--similar to my own college tuition for mandatory chem/physics teaching in 1971.

    All tuition paid--must serve internships in VA Hospitals and/or Veteran's Homes.
    Must work for the VA for 5 years after receiving accreditation.

    Now, many of these hospitals associated with Veteran's Homes are actually Catholic/Public hospitals.
    Manteno VH has to alternate with St. Mary's and Riverside in Kankakee.
    In Quincy, they go to Blessing Hospital for an emergency.


    Btw, the VA bill would have built 27 new facilities.
    Have you seen the shape of some of these VA facilities--I did for 38 years caring for my Dad until he died in 2012.

    That bill was nothing but an act by the Dems to try to mitigate the fallout from the scandals. Even the VA has told them money was not the issue in many of the cases. Sure, more facilities would be nice. But then, how do we pay for it? Interesting how the left is screaming about the right blocking the bill but you don't see the left fessing up cuts to their vote buying schemes to pay for it.

    Why do you people always have to go swinging to the right blaming the left?
    Sure does git er done eh ?
    Physics is Phun

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    Re: Poor care at VA hospitals cost 1,000 veterans their lives, report says

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    Why do you people always have to go swinging to the right blaming the left?
    Sure does git er done eh ?
    Apparently reading comprehension wasn't part of what they taught you. Nothing in my statement blamed anyone for the problems.
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

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    Re: Poor care at VA hospitals cost 1,000 veterans their lives, report says

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    Frankly, I don't give a **** about the non-veterans and they really have nothing to do with the VA Healthcare system. Each and every able bodied adult with a "sound" mind is responsible for themselves, the society has no responsibility towards them unless, like Veterans, they have provided particular service to the society. The less you give someone for free, the more they are motivated to get off their asses and do for themselves.

    True, education does not always help. If you waste your time with a BS degree that has few or no job openings, then your justs as stupid as not taking any education. However, if you choose education in employable areas, you will always better yourself. Maybe not immediately, but working a crap job to get experience to move up is a hell of a lot better than working a crap job with no chance of advancement.
    Actually, there IS government responsibility to non veterans. The states license health care providers, and in so doing assume the role of policing them as well.
    Redneck, hillbilly, fundie, Bible thumper, cracker, split tails, geezer, loon, xenophobe, islamaphobe, and homophobe are not words of tolerance.

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