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S.F. threatens parking app 'MonkeyParking' with lawsuit

They way I understand it is you get paid only after the person paying successfully gets the spot.

That seems like a logistics nightmare.

If the guy that is supposed to get there suddenly gets called away for whatever, what happens to the guy sitting there waiting?

How long does he have to wait before he can cancel the deal, and if he does cancel the deal and makes a deal with somebody else then both show up for the space, what then.

It is too crazy for me.
 
Oh, but there are some major differences. In my lawn chair example, the transaction takes place completely within the confines of the city.

Lol, the transaction is for public property that is subject to city laws. Are you old enough to understand these concepts? It doesn't matter where a transaction takes place. It's subject to city laws if what is being exchanged for money is public property belonging to the city. As far as the city is concerned, it's public property is not there for people to make a business out of.

Well, yes, but the statute's very specific:

Statutes usually are.

So what MonkeyParking app user is placing or maintaining a sign, picture, transparency, advertisement, or mechanical device ON the parking space? :confused:

Your inability to circumvent language with any coherent arguments is impressive but it doesn't get you any points. You can maintain an advertisement on a property (public or private) without physically placing a sign. That's why it said placed upon in other words: An advertisement over the internet has no difference from an advertisement on a lawn as both serve the exact same purpose. That is to advertise a good. It's a nice try though. Now, put the Ayn Rand book down.
 
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Probably just fine him. They may have to post a "no reselling" contract sticker on each meter. Then, all they need to do is point to the sticker, and then fine him for violating the contract.

Yeah, but how would the cops know? Are they going to question everyone sitting in a parking spot with a phone or tablet in his lap? It's not like they're hanging signs out of their windows advertising it. "Hey, people! You can have my spot for ten bucks!" I'm thinking San Francisco already realizes the enforcement challenges, hence the letters to Apple and MonkeyParking with the threat of a lawsuit. Assuming the city is successful, they'll just drive this activity underground. I mean, the recording industry got Napster to throw in the towel, but what have they done to The Pirate Bay and other similar torrenting websites? The founders of The Pirate Bay were found guilty in Sweden, but that didn't stop people from setting up proxies all over the planet. Anyone who has fingers and can spell can download anything they want, whether it be books, movies, magazines, music, or auto repair manuals. There's never been a better time for piracy. San Francisco is pissing in the wind.
 
I think it's a great idea. I hold a parking space with my car and auction the timed removal of my car from that legal parking space to the highest bidder. Heck, that's the American Way! Can't imagine why it would be illegal to auction off moving your car out of a parking space. *shrug*

SF's probably just mad they didn't think of it first. Think of all those public sector workers they could hire with fabulous pensions to hold spaces!! A liberal's wet dream!!

well it isn't your parking spot to begin with and it is illegal to auction, rent or even attempt to sell somethng that doesn't belong to you to begin with.
 
They way I understand it is you get paid only after the person paying successfully gets the spot.

you can't sell something that doesn't belong to you. which is exactly what they are doing. allowing people to sell something that doesn't belong to them. it belongs to the public as a whole.
 
Yeah, but how would the cops know?

They don't have to. You fine the company for every violation just like Europe has done. This is a company enticing people to break city laws and ignore public property laws. There is nothing stopping the city from fining the company $5K for each transaction it processes.
 
Lol, the transaction is for public property that is subject to city laws.

Well, according to you and the city attorney it is. I haven't seen a legal opinion stating that. When a judge comes up with an opinion that states that a San Francisco city ordinance supercedes the Commerce Clause to the U.S. Constitution and treaties governing international commerce and communications I'll believe you.

Are you old enough to understand these concepts? It doesn't matter where a transaction takes place. It's subject to city laws if what is being exchanged for money is public property belonging to the city. As far as the city is concerned, it's public property is not there for people to make a business out of.

You know, you're increasingly shrill attacks on my intellect belie the fact that you don't have an argument. Case in point:

Your inability to circumvent language with any coherent arguments is impressive but it doesn't get you any points. You can maintain an advertisement on a property (public or private) without physically placing a sign.

Yes, but you're stretching the legal definition of the word "on" or "upon" and the intent of that section, titled "Unlawfully Placing Signs On Public And Private Property" by implying that it applies to a notification via the Internet that a parking space is being vacated. Even a moron knows that a "sign" is a physical thing. But then that is California, with its cadre of judges schooled in the law by Tweedle Dumb and Tweedle Dumber. But, like I said in the previous post, winning a legal argument and a real one when the practical challenges are insurmountable are two different things. I'll chalk this one up for John Galt.
 
They don't have to. You fine the company for every violation just like Europe has done. This is a company enticing people to break city laws and ignore public property laws. There is nothing stopping the city from fining the company $5K for each transaction it processes.

OK, so you fine the company and then it reconstitutes itself in Vanuatu while everyone who wants a parking spot and is willing to pay for it just drops dead or what? You know, you can order illicit drugs on the Internet and have them shipped anywhere you want. Do you really think that if there's a buck to be made San Francisco can stop it? Good luck.
 
They way I understand it is you get paid only after the person paying successfully gets the spot.

Whats to keep me from finding a spot listing and physically blocking the transaction?

If i get there first theres no way for the "customer" or the "seller" to prevent me from.doing so short of the seller being able to out-stubborn me.
 
Well, according to you and the city attorney it is. I haven't seen a legal opinion stating that.

According to a city attorney? According to anybody who understands how property works and owns some.

You know, you're increasingly shrill attacks on my intellect belie the fact that you don't have an argument. Case in point:

Shrill? For whom? Lol, the city of San Francisco? I'm in Mexico, kiddo.

Yes, but you're stretching the legal definition of the word "on" or "upon" and the intent of that section,

Stretching the legal definition of upon? What legal definition? There is absolutely no difference between placing an advertisement online and an advertisement on an app or an advertisement on a lawn. All 3 serve the same purpose. Spare us the libertarian nonsense and buy some property then you'll understand why this is illegal on about 3 different grounds.
 
OK, so you fine the company and then it reconstitutes itself in Vanuatu while everyone who wants a parking spot and is willing to pay for it just drops dead or what?

Constituting itself in Vanuatu does not protect it from fines given to it by the city of San Francisco. Do you know how companies work? A company can have its holdings in Timbuktu and it could still be fined in New York City. Hell, people are convicted of terrorism in courts they've never set foot in. Seriously, how old are you?

You know, you can order illicit drugs on the Internet and have them shipped anywhere you want.

And yet, that is just as illegal as purchasing it from a dealer on a street corner. Do you understand how laws work?
 
There's never been a better time for piracy. San Francisco is pissing in the wind.

Those are some good points. I am very low tech and have never even sent a text message. Thus, I was not aware of the technology involved.

Maybe the Police could consider the parking space "holder" as the illegal "seller"? They then go undercover, solicit for available parking spaces, and fine the local "holders".

If they keep it as an administrative punishment (infraction ticket) they might not have to prove "beyond a reasonable doubt" that the holder sold the space. Rather, the level of proof of the sale might just need to be "preponderance of the evidence", or "more likely than not".
 
Who???????

Sean Penn movie "milk". He was a regionally famous San Fran politician who got assainated I think back in the 70's.
 
Whats to keep me from finding a spot listing and physically blocking the transaction?

Like I said earlier, personally I'd just put on Spotify or pick up a book and let you sit there while other people made money. Eventually, you'd either move or risk getting a ticket for impeding traffic. Assuming you were stubborn and I had to leave, I'd leave and let you fight it out with the other guy. The Good Lord willing, he'd punch you in the nose and you'd go to jail for being an asswipe.
 
Sean Penn movie "milk". He was a regionally famous San Fran politician who got assainated I think back in the 70's.
I know who he was. I just dont think the blame game extends to him does it?
 
well it isn't your parking spot to begin with and it is illegal to auction, rent or even attempt to sell somethng that doesn't belong to you to begin with.

But I'm not auctioning, renting or selling something that doesn't belong to me to begin with. I'm auctioning "when I'm going to move my car out of the spot I got into first."

Same principle as asking someone to stand in for you on a ticket line. Or waving someone into your parking spot at the shopping mall.
 
But I'm not auctioning, renting or selling something that doesn't belong to me to begin with. I'm auctioning "when I'm going to move my car out of the spot I got into first."

Same principle as asking someone to stand in for you on a ticket line. Or waving someone into your parking spot at the shopping mall.

no you are auction a spot. public parking is first come first serve.
yea and people get ticked at people who hold places in line for others that aren't there. in fact sometime they are asked to go to the back of the line.

waving someone into your parking space is a first come first serve.

the city has a right stop people from auctioning and selling items that don't belong to them. i agree with the city.
 
no you are auction a spot. public parking is first come first serve.
yea and people get ticked at people who hold places in line for others that aren't there. in fact sometime they are asked to go to the back of the line.

waving someone into your parking space is a first come first serve.

the city has a right stop people from auctioning and selling items that don't belong to them. i agree with the city.

The city can enforce whatever they choose. And I'll most certainly agree with the city when they start issuing citations.

I believe, though, that my principle is correct. I'd be willing to argue it in front of a jury. ;)
 
I believe, though, that my principle is correct. I'd be willing to argue it in front of a jury. ;)

The principle of what, selling public property for private profit?

I'll get a few friends and occupy every space, that will be our 'job'. We'll be small-time career politicians, a life on taxpayer dollars. We'll start bidding wars between groups and own the parking lot with the iron fist of a violent gang. It will be our turf, who cares who paid for it, and parking there will cost.

That principle?
 
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The principle of what, selling public property for private profit?

I'll get a few friends and occupy every space, that will be our 'job'. We'll be small-time career politicians, a life on taxpayer dollars. We'll start bidding wars between groups and own the parking lot with the iron fist of a violent gang. It will be our turf, who cares who paid for it, and parking there will cost.

That principle?

Brat! ;)
 
Like I said earlier, personally I'd just put on Spotify or pick up a book and let you sit there while other people made money. Eventually, you'd either move or risk getting a ticket for impeding traffic. Assuming you were stubborn and I had to leave, I'd leave and let you fight it out with the other guy. The Good Lord willing, he'd punch you in the nose and you'd go to jail for being an asswipe.

Why is yoir behavior not asswipery?

And who goes to jail.for getting assaulted?

And why aren't you the one getting punched for selling something you couldn't deliver?

And if youre in a timed spot, YOU will get the cops ire.

And i can film you putting more money in the meter if you try that.
 
The principle of what, selling public property for private profit?

I'll get a few friends and occupy every space, that will be our 'job'. We'll be small-time career politicians, a life on taxpayer dollars. We'll start bidding wars between groups and own the parking lot with the iron fist of a violent gang. It will be our turf, who cares who paid for it, and parking there will cost.

That principle?

I just thought of a comparison. In the City of Chicago, residents are allowed to put lawn chairs, etc., in their snow-shoveled-out parking spaces in front of their home. Move the lawn chairs at your peril. Chicago doesn't have assigned parking. Those spaces are all public parking, yet the city doesn't object. Why is this "saving" any different? Chicago might have a hard time enforcing a ban on such a business because of this precedent. 'Course we like to take the city to court for all sorts of reasons.

I realize it's over the top, but it does make one wonder, "Why not?"
 
I just thought of a comparison. In the City of Chicago, residents are allowed to put lawn chairs, etc., in their snow-shoveled-out parking spaces in front of their home. Move the lawn chairs at your peril. Chicago doesn't have assigned parking. Those spaces are all public parking, yet the city doesn't object. Why is this "saving" any different? Chicago might have a hard time enforcing a ban on such a business because of this precedent. 'Course we like to take the city to court for all sorts of reasons.

I realize it's over the top, but it does make one wonder, "Why not?"

Is your driveway public space?
 
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