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Thread: S.F. threatens parking app 'MonkeyParking' with lawsuit

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    Re: S.F. threatens parking app 'MonkeyParking' with lawsuit

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    probably right. i guess i was thinking more in terms of the big city in my state which actually has solved the problem to a certain extent by building more garages. while parking is expensive, it's usually available now.
    Even in our little towns in SD, parking space within the business district is always in high demand. There's a central parking garage and the City decided to add another story to it.

    I think SF should see through their distaste for "omg they're selling public space" and hold a competition among private entities to solve the problem in much the same way NASA held a competition to combat future space missions (the winner being SpaceX ). This app is just the private sector trying to solve a problem, but they're all acting like individuals and the result is predatory competition. What they need is leadership.

    Maybe one short-term option is for MonkeyParking to run the whole thing more like Lyft, where you aren't required to pay a per-use fee but tips are appreciated. A micro-culture would rise around this activity and through social media would establish customs regarding tips. Lots of people would get that app and thus it would fertile ground for advertisers; not only through the app but anything you could put on or around the parking spot itself. Advertisers would love to know where you like to park, when, how long you're there, what kind of cars you drive, etc. There's money to be had in this without directly auctioning off public space.

    This is exactly the sort of thing fuzzy-logic models are developed through video games for.

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    Re: S.F. threatens parking app 'MonkeyParking' with lawsuit

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    You can't sell/rent out property you don't own to begin with. Thus, advertising an illegal activity is itself illegal.
    And I'm not claiming anyone's buying a parking spot, either. When I put coins in a meter, I'm buying a legal right to park there for a specific period of time. I paid for it, and I can certainly give the time away if I leave before my time's expired, so why should it be illegal for me to sell it? Does the city have a contract with me and me only to park there? No. Does it take skin off of the city's nose if someone else is occupying the spot? No. Am I depriving the city of anything? No.
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    Re: S.F. threatens parking app 'MonkeyParking' with lawsuit

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    And I'm not claiming anyone's buying a parking spot, either.
    Only through the way the app is set up, it's clear that people who pay for the spots are buying them.

    hen I put coins in a meter, I'm buying a legal right to park there for a specific period of time.....so why should it be illegal for me to sell it?
    What part of "At no point are you the owner of the parking spot" do you not understand? When you understand that little fact, you'll understand why it is that you can't profit from it. Can I set up a tent on a sidewalk and charge people to sleep in that tent then call it a hotel room? No. It's public property.
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    Re: S.F. threatens parking app 'MonkeyParking' with lawsuit

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Planar View Post
    But its not just information. These spots are being tied up, held by others until the next party arrives. The city has the right to control the access to the parking.
    Have you considered that maybe they wouldn't be tied up so much if it cost more to park? If the city gave away free 49ers tickets don't you think they'd be in demand? So why should free or cheap parking spots be any different when demand far outstrips supply?
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    Re: S.F. threatens parking app 'MonkeyParking' with lawsuit

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Even in our little towns in SD, parking space within the business district is always in high demand. There's a central parking garage and the City decided to add another story to it.

    I think SF should see through their distaste for "omg they're selling public space" and hold a competition among private entities to solve the problem in much the same way NASA held a competition to combat future space missions (the winner being SpaceX ). This app is just the private sector trying to solve a problem, but they're all acting like individuals and the result is predatory competition. What they need is leadership.

    Maybe one short-term option is for MonkeyParking to run the whole thing more like Lyft, where you aren't required to pay a per-use fee but tips are appreciated. A micro-culture would rise around this activity and through social media would establish customs regarding tips. Lots of people would get that app and thus it would fertile ground for advertisers; not only through the app but anything you could put on or around the parking spot itself. Advertisers would love to know where you like to park, when, how long you're there, what kind of cars you drive, etc. There's money to be had in this without directly auctioning off public space.

    This is exactly the sort of thing fuzzy-logic models are developed through video games for.
    i could probably support whatever that app is called that lets you catch a ride with someone who is going where you're going; the one that competes with taxis. pretty big safety risk, though. i wouldn't want my GF just riding with some random person who could be a psycho. however, i have more trouble app that generates parking lot trolls, taking up space after space until someone needs it. ideally, it's a pretty good idea : if i'm shopping, i could post when i'm leaving and let someone else know that the space is going to be open at X time. toss money into it, though, and then you get jackasses trying to game the system. no thanks.

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    Re: S.F. threatens parking app 'MonkeyParking' with lawsuit

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    What part of "At no point are you the owner of the parking spot" do you not understand? When you understand that little fact, you'll understand why it is that you can't profit from it. Can I set up a tent on a sidewalk and charge people to sleep in that tent then call it a hotel room? No. It's public property.
    Like I said, when I put coins in a meter, I'm not buying the spot. I'm buying the right to occupy it for a specific period of time. And if I want to "sell" that right for nothing (i.e., give it away), I can do that. (I mean, I never met a liberal who objected to free s***.) But the moment someone wants to sell their right to something because some poor Bohemian may no longer be able to afford the subsidized service and might have to take the bus they get all apoplectic. The market was distorted in the first place by the decision to make a scarce (non-public) service available at an artificially low price, but then they're surprised when a secondary or black market develops for the good or service and try to stamp it out by making it illegal. They really need to stop reading Das Kapital and try a primer on capitalism.
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    Re: S.F. threatens parking app 'MonkeyParking' with lawsuit

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Only through the way the app is set up, it's clear that people who pay for the spots are buying them.



    What part of "At no point are you the owner of the parking spot" do you not understand? When you understand that little fact, you'll understand why it is that you can't profit from it. Can I set up a tent on a sidewalk and charge people to sleep in that tent then call it a hotel room? No. It's public property.
    They aren't selling property, though. They're selling you a service. They are not selling you the parking space, they are selling you the timed vacancy of that lot. Big difference. This is like going to a big movie opening or a Black Friday event and selling your spot in line (I actually did that a couple times back in the day when I was homeless).

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    Re: S.F. threatens parking app 'MonkeyParking' with lawsuit

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    Like I said, when I put coins in a meter, I'm not buying the spot. I'm buying the right to occupy it for a specific period of time.
    Yes, and that right does not include another right of sale whenever you want to. Do you have a right to ignore your lease agreement and rent off your apartment for considerably more than the original lease agreement says? No. Of course not. Seriously, do you own/rent anything? This is getting tedious.
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    Re: S.F. threatens parking app 'MonkeyParking' with lawsuit

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    And I'm not claiming anyone's buying a parking spot, either. When I put coins in a meter, I'm buying a legal right to park there for a specific period of time. I paid for it, and I can certainly give the time away if I leave before my time's expired, so why should it be illegal for me to sell it? Does the city have a contract with me and me only to park there? No. Does it take skin off of the city's nose if someone else is occupying the spot? No. Am I depriving the city of anything? No.
    The city owns the spot. You can't sell it. Period.

    Same way you can't rent out an apartment you are renting yourself. The landlord never gave you permission to rent out his property.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: S.F. threatens parking app 'MonkeyParking' with lawsuit

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    The city owns the spot. You can't sell it. Period.

    Same way you can't rent out an apartment you are renting yourself. The landlord never gave you permission to rent out his property.
    He simply doesn't get that right to use does not come with right to sell. I think he just got a copy of Atlas Shrugged and he's trying to flex all the big words he learned here.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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