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Thread: S.F. threatens parking app 'MonkeyParking' with lawsuit

  1. #111
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    Re: S.F. threatens parking app 'MonkeyParking' with lawsuit

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Planar View Post
    I'm sorry if your moral code doesn't allow you to see the unethical nature. I'm not going to write e lengthy paragraph about ethics.
    I'm guessing it has to do with depriving the less fortunate or the uninformed of a civic birthright, or something to that effect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Planar View Post
    At least SF is coming down with it, has the city code to back it up.
    Well, apparently they think their ordinance takes precedence over the U.S. Constitution. I suppose we'll see, because I don't imagine these companies are going down without a fight, immoral or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Planar View Post
    Have you ever tried to park in SF? Do you really think the people willing to be gouged an extra $20 to park should be favored over those who can't?
    I grew up less than 30 miles from the LA Civic Center, so I'm familiar with parking and traffic issues. This app would have been a godsend. And, yeah, actually I have parked in San Francisco on several occasions, the latest having been just last October. I found a spot near the Maritime Museum. I backed up to let a young women driving a crossover with a kid in tow have more space and she proceeded to keep backing up using a camera until she was within inches of my bumper. I honked my horn and she stopped, and I backed up again to give me room to get out. She started moving again. This time I gave her a nice, long blast. She stopped and then approached me. When I told her about her proximity to my vehicle and not leaving me room to exit the parking spot she gave me a dismissive toss of her brow and said, "Well, I knew how far I was. I'm sorry if I made you nervous." She then the darted off before I could respond again. Spoken like a true liberal, and reinforcement that my decision to leave the state permanently twenty years ago was a good one. Anyway, it probably a good thing that she left. If not for the kid I would have told her if she wanted to get poked in the ass there were other, better ways to do it.
    Last edited by Ahlevah; 06-25-14 at 11:27 PM.
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  2. #112
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    Re: S.F. threatens parking app 'MonkeyParking' with lawsuit

    Wow.

    I'm sorry you don't understand.

  3. #113
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    Re: S.F. threatens parking app 'MonkeyParking' with lawsuit

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Planar View Post
    Wow.

    I'm sorry you don't understand.
    Yeah, I don't, and I'm thinking that since you can't or won't explain it you don't really understand it either.
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  4. #114
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    Re: S.F. threatens parking app 'MonkeyParking' with lawsuit

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    Yeah, I don't, and I'm thinking that since you can't or won't explain it you don't really understand it either.
    How is occupying a public space for profit, effectively collecting payment for what you do not own, a 1st amendment right?

    Did you see the city ordinances listed above?

    Do you disagree with the legality?

    How is tying up a parking spot, which are in very short supply in SF, until someone pays you for it ethical?

    It's not that I can't explain the ethics of it, it's that it would take too much time. Time that would probably be wasted on someone that doesn't see it as so, and probably never would. How much time might I waste and how many paragraphs on ethics would it take?

  5. #115
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    Re: S.F. threatens parking app 'MonkeyParking' with lawsuit

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Planar View Post
    How is occupying a public space for profit, effectively collecting payment for what you do not own, a 1st amendment right?

    Did you see the city ordinances listed above?

    Do you disagree with the legality?

    How is tying up a parking spot, which are in very short supply in SF, until someone pays you for it ethical?

    It's not that I can't explain the ethics of it, it's that it would take too much time. Time that would probably be wasted on someone that doesn't see it as so, and probably never would. How much time might I waste and how many paragraphs on ethics would it take?
    I've already touched on all of this previously, so I suppose I could say I'm wasting my time, too, except that I'm not trying to convince you as much as someone else who's sitting on the fence who may not have read all of the previous discussion. Since this is a debate board and you've already pretty much conceded the point by copping out, my job should be easier. I was hoping for more of a challenge.

    To reprise:

    Q: How is occupying a public space for profit, effectively collecting payment for what you do not own, a 1st amendment right?

    A: You're engaging in faulty logic here by distorting my contention that exchanging information that doesn't involve something clearly illicit (such as espionage) involves the First Amendment into something I don't recognize.

    Q: So you see the ordinances named above?

    A: Yes, I did, and I questioned their validity in this case based on jurisdictional and applicable grounds. Hatuey seems to think that San Francisco can regulate the Internet and that when I tell someone I'm leaving a parking spot I'm posting a sign on public property.

    Q: Do you disagree with the legality?

    A: Well, unless San Francisco can pull another legal rabbit out of its hat, I don't see where anything illegal is being done here. The day it becomes illegal to sell information that doesn't involve insider trading or state secrets is the day this republic ended.

    Q: How is tying up a parking spot, which are in very short supply in SF, until someone pays you for it ethical?

    A: Would it be more ethical for me to sit longer in the spot contemplating my navel because it was free and I wasn't receiving a financial incentive to move? I could tie up a spot if I weren't getting paid, too, right? Like I said earlier, what if I just wanted to sit in Starbucks for hours listening to tunes, knowing other people needed the spot? Why is that less "immoral"? Would it be ethical for me to tell the app about the spot and then just leave, playing a numbers game and hoping someone gets it? Since I don't like wasting my time and I also like money, it would make more sense for me to keep wait times to a minimum by figuring out when I'd be leaving and letting the app know that. Since I had a financial incentive to leave I might leave sooner. Thus, instead of some poor schmuck wasting his time driving around, he'll have a spot the moment it becomes available. Why is that less moral than just letting him hope he'll chance upon my empty spot?
    Last edited by Ahlevah; 06-26-14 at 11:17 AM.
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    Re: S.F. threatens parking app 'MonkeyParking' with lawsuit

    Wow.

    OK, interesting justification.

    I wonder, how long would you wait doing nothing, if not getting paid?

    Parking monkey only works by you waiting longer than you normally would, hence, tying up a parking space otherwise not tied up.

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    Re: S.F. threatens parking app 'MonkeyParking' with lawsuit

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Planar View Post
    Parking monkey only works by you waiting longer than you normally would, hence, tying up a parking space otherwise not tied up.
    You're looking at the problem of efficient utilization of the available parking spots in one dimension. Doesn't it stand to reason that someone will find a spot quicker with the app than he otherwise would? Otherwise, why pay the money?
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    Re: S.F. threatens parking app 'MonkeyParking' with lawsuit

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    You're looking at the problem of efficient utilization of the available parking spots in one dimension. Doesn't it stand to reason that someone will find a spot quicker with the app than he otherwise would? Otherwise, why pay the money?
    Yes, the person with the app will find a spot quicker. However, the efficiency of parking will service more people as random person fills it almost immediacy after a person withing for a paying client waits, and waits, and waits... longer than they would have otherwise.

    Why privilege the people willing to pay more? At some pointing, the person not willing or able to pay more will never find parking, as the app usage rises. This leads to a class parking system.

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    Re: S.F. threatens parking app 'MonkeyParking' with lawsuit

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Planar View Post
    Yes, the person with the app will find a spot quicker. However, the efficiency of parking will service more people as random person fills it almost immediacy after a person withing for a paying client waits, and waits, and waits... longer than they would have otherwise.
    Like I said, you're looking at the problem in one dimension. You're assuming someone will see the spot the moment I vacate it. That's not a given. Then you're assuming that people who are given a financial incentive to move their vehicles won't do it faster than people who can stay parked for the maximum permitted time because it's free. You're also assuming I get to my car before the guy who's paid to know I'm leaving it arrives. THAT'S not a given; who's to say I didn't arrange ahead of time to meet the guy at specific time and that he won't be there waiting for ME? You're also assuming that people won't consume more of a "free" resource. On what planet has that ever happened? The simple fact is a parking spot for a private vehicle is NOT a public good; it is neither non-excludable nor non-rivalrous, and these technologies tear the loincloth off of a public entity's attempt to create a public good in this instance.

    So, why privilege the people willing to pay more? For the same reason we apply the laws of supply and demand to any non-public good: to more efficiently manage a scarce resource. No one can claim that parking in San Francisco isn't scarce or that the current chaos is working for anyone.
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    Re: S.F. threatens parking app 'MonkeyParking' with lawsuit

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    Like I said, you're looking at the problem in one dimension. You're assuming someone will see the spot the moment I vacate it. That's not a given. Then you're assuming that people who are given a financial incentive to move their vehicles won't do it faster than people who can stay parked for the maximum permitted time because it's free. You're also assuming I get to my car before the guy who's paid to know I'm leaving it arrives. THAT'S not a given; who's to say I didn't arrange ahead of time to meet the guy at specific time and that he won't be there waiting for ME? You're also assuming that people won't consume more of a "free" resource. On what planet has that ever happened? The simple fact is a parking spot for a private vehicle is NOT a public good; it is neither non-excludable nor non-rivalrous, and these technologies tear the loincloth off of a public entity's attempt to create a public good in this instance.

    So, why privilege the people willing to pay more? For the same reason we apply the laws of supply and demand to any non-public good: to more efficiently manage a scarce resource. No one can claim that parking in San Francisco isn't scarce or that the current chaos is working for anyone.
    We simply will not agree. I hope the SF PD gets Parking monkey on their phones, drive around in unmarked cars, and ticket or jail people for holding public parking hostage.

    I'm going to write them a letter suggesting just that.

    What was the listed fines available?

    The city can make several thousand a day per police officer I bet, bidding for the spots and taking out the offenders...

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