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U.S. Memo Outlines Rationale for Drone Strikes on Citizens

The "government" can't be trusted.

And yet, what choice do we have? Our 'government' is bound by our Constitution of protect the American citizenry.

Besides, they get pissy if we try and protect ourselves. ;)
 
But that hasn't anything to do with drones, civilian casualties and the lack of due process.

No war, no drones, no civilian casualties. As for the American Terrorist in Yemen, in situations like this the same folks hollaring about due process of law etc because he was taken are the same ones who would be hollaring the loudest against us if he went on to commit a terrorist act which killed a bunch of Americans, they would now be demanding to know why something wasn't done to prevent this or this guy wasn't killed when we had the chance.
 
And yet, what choice do we have? Our 'government' is bound by our Constitution of protect the American citizenry.

Besides, they get pissy if we try and protect ourselves. ;)

Good point. Unfortunately, there are too many examples of our government failing to honour the constitution, both parties. I don't trust a skeletal few politicians declaring an individual an enemy combatant and taking him out on less than desirable intell on the ground (without our traditional due process) which more often than not overlooks the funeral, wedding, back yard barbecue or farmers market adjacent to the strike zone, which only provokes further animosity amongst those we are suppose to be serving. Fourteen years of failed US policy in the ME, and the fact that no country in the region is in better shape since our post 9/11 operations there should be proof enough for all that we have failed, hugely. I agree with your second point.
 
No war, no drones, no civilian casualties. As for the American Terrorist in Yemen, in situations like this the same folks hollaring about due process of law etc because he was taken are the same ones who would be hollaring the loudest against us if he went on to commit a terrorist act which killed a bunch of Americans, they would now be demanding to know why something wasn't done to prevent this or this guy wasn't killed when we had the chance.

That's not me Pero. I'm not afraid of terrorist attacks!! I'm afraid of US failed foreign policy in the region that breeds contempt for the US in the first place. There's only three Americans left that believes the stale Bush rhetoric that they hate us for our values, morals, Starbucks and Grammies.
 
I have no problem with it. Regardless of where one is born, if they are a terrorist and an enemy of the United States, targeting them overseas is just fine with me.

Why just overseas? Heck, they captured the "terrist" in Benghazi. I suppose they should have drilled him with a Reaper, but there wouldn't be as much to play with in the media, eh?

If the govt says somebody is a bad guy, terrist, then BY GOD it must be true.

They should take out those bad guys anywhere, including in Detroit City or Dallas-Fort Worth. Who needs a freakin' trial?
 
And yet, what choice do we have? Our 'government' is bound by our Constitution of protect the American citizenry.

Besides, they get pissy if we try and protect ourselves. ;)

The government is bound by the Constitution? In which dimension is that the case?
 
That's not me Pero. I'm not afraid of terrorist attacks!! I'm afraid of US failed foreign policy in the region that breeds contempt for the US in the first place. There's only three Americans left that believes the stale Bush rhetoric that they hate us for our values, morals, Starbucks and Grammies.

I did take pains not to use the word you as I know I made a general statement. But I have seen that happen time and again. I had been a military man all my life and I have seen that hollering happen time and time again. As a military man one doesn't worry about why such and such hates us or is trying to kill you, your job is to kill him first to prevent him from killing you or others. That too is a blanket statement.

I have found out throughout my long life that some religious leaders are the most hate filled and the most willing to kill others who do not believe in their religion or their sect of their religion or even as small as their own little church. These leaders gather followers and soon their followers believe the same as them. After awhile you have an army or a real big group will to go forth to kill anyone who doesn't believe the exact same as they do.

For these people above, they don't hate us because we are free or have Starbucks or McDonald's or our values, which they think our values are decedent. They simply hate us because we do not believe in their religion, the exact sect, church or their on individual interpretation of their religion. It is not just us, it is everyone to include people who believe in their religion, but not as these leaders interpret it and believe it should be practiced. We are the big boys on the block, the one that stands out the most, thus the most hated. These folks, their hearts and minds can't be won as they won't be satisfied until everyone is either converted to believe exactly as they do or are dead.

One has to recognize that this type of people exist and are the ones who have caused what is going on to happen. We could pull out of the Middle East today, completely and that wouldn't stop the folks I mentioned above from continuing to target us. Us being there is a handy excuse and if we weren't, they would find another. Most Muslims don't care what others believe or what we believe or what our values are. But a charismatic leaders in inspire them to hate us and any to kill others who don't believe as they. Look at Hitler and what he did. He wasn't religious, but he did inspire the Germans right into WWII.

From almost the beginning of time or since man first set foot on the earth this type of thing has been going on. Man is a warlike creature, man for some reason has to have others or want other to think, believe the same way they do. If you don't your are an enemy, an outsider, someone who needs to be converted or killed. The causes, reasons, could be religion, political, greed, jealously, or a thousand other reasons. This is just the nature of man.

As for the wars, I thought Iraq was a mistake, Afghanistan warranted. But it was with nation building that we erred. Big time, but that is another subject for another thread for another day.
 
I did take pains not to use the word you as I know I made a general statement. But I have seen that happen time and again. I had been a military man all my life and I have seen that hollering happen time and time again. As a military man one doesn't worry about why such and such hates us or is trying to kill you, your job is to kill him first to prevent him from killing you or others. That too is a blanket statement.

I have found out throughout my long life that some religious leaders are the most hate filled and the most willing to kill others who do not believe in their religion or their sect of their religion or even as small as their own little church. These leaders gather followers and soon their followers believe the same as them. After awhile you have an army or a real big group will to go forth to kill anyone who doesn't believe the exact same as they do.

For these people above, they don't hate us because we are free or have Starbucks or McDonald's or our values, which they think our values are decedent. They simply hate us because we do not believe in their religion, the exact sect, church or their on individual interpretation of their religion. It is not just us, it is everyone to include people who believe in their religion, but not as these leaders interpret it and believe it should be practiced. We are the big boys on the block, the one that stands out the most, thus the most hated. These folks, their hearts and minds can't be won as they won't be satisfied until everyone is either converted to believe exactly as they do or are dead.

One has to recognize that this type of people exist and are the ones who have caused what is going on to happen. We could pull out of the Middle East today, completely and that wouldn't stop the folks I mentioned above from continuing to target us. Us being there is a handy excuse and if we weren't, they would find another. Most Muslims don't care what others believe or what we believe or what our values are. But a charismatic leaders in inspire them to hate us and any to kill others who don't believe as they. Look at Hitler and what he did. He wasn't religious, but he did inspire the Germans right into WWII.

From almost the beginning of time or since man first set foot on the earth this type of thing has been going on. Man is a warlike creature, man for some reason has to have others or want other to think, believe the same way they do. If you don't your are an enemy, an outsider, someone who needs to be converted or killed. The causes, reasons, could be religion, political, greed, jealously, or a thousand other reasons. This is just the nature of man.

As for the wars, I thought Iraq was a mistake, Afghanistan warranted. But it was with nation building that we erred. Big time, but that is another subject for another thread for another day.

Have you ever considered that they might hate us because we invaded their country and destroyed it? That we kill their people for no reason at all?
 
Why just overseas? Heck, they captured the "terrist" in Benghazi. I suppose they should have drilled him with a Reaper, but there wouldn't be as much to play with in the media, eh?

If the govt says somebody is a bad guy, terrist, then BY GOD it must be true.

They should take out those bad guys anywhere, including in Detroit City or Dallas-Fort Worth. Who needs a freakin' trial?

So many people act like these guys just robbed a liquor store in downtown Detroit. United States Criminal laws applies to those withing the borders of the United States. Not in Libya, these guys are not your friendly little town hoodlums.
 
Good point. Unfortunately, there are too many examples of our government failing to honour the constitution, both parties. I don't trust a skeletal few politicians declaring an individual an enemy combatant and taking him out on less than desirable intell on the ground (without our traditional due process) which more often than not overlooks the funeral, wedding, back yard barbecue or farmers market adjacent to the strike zone, which only provokes further animosity amongst those we are suppose to be serving. Fourteen years of failed US policy in the ME, and the fact that no country in the region is in better shape since our post 9/11 operations there should be proof enough for all that we have failed, hugely. I agree with your second point.

I agree. The entire Islamic world has not change at all. It's likely gotten more fierce and brutal, with more resolve. There will come a time when the Islamic world and the west butt heads in a major way.
 
Bush holds the gold medal for this...

Of course, Bush isn't president. But when your guy does something wrong, the first run to is 'but bush!' Sort of like the 6 years of blaming Bush (and anyone else he can think of) that has come out of the whitehouse. Thanks. We know you will support 'your guys' no matter what they do.
 
Have you ever considered that they might hate us because we invaded their country and destroyed it? That we kill their people for no reason at all?

That's essentially what I was saying. It really is such a no brainer that escapes so many, strange huh?
 
Have you ever considered that they might hate us because we invaded their country and destroyed it? That we kill their people for no reason at all?

Their leaders hated us before we even stepped into their country.
 
Of course, Bush isn't president. But when your guy does something wrong, the first run to is 'but bush!' Sort of like the 6 years of blaming Bush (and anyone else he can think of) that has come out of the whitehouse. Thanks. We know you will support 'your guys' no matter what they do.

And all you do is dodge facts by trying to use this tired tactic of ignoring very recent history. This is the blind hypocrisy of you folks bellowing out bull**** faux outrage as if you know nothing of recent history. It's either incredible ignorance or willful ignorance and simply trying to enlighten you of facts has you responding by plugging your ears and scream "IM NOT LISTENING!!!!!!!11!!11!" It matters not how much you want to ignore facts and history and your hypocrisy... they are all still factual.
 
He was essentially the Jihadist Jane Fonda.

Too bad we didn't have drones with hellfires in the 1960's. Oh oh... was that overly insensitive and mean spirited? Good.... :pimpdaddy:
 
Did anyone read the memo? And if so, can they describe in concise language how they tried to get around the 4th amendment?
 
Their leaders hated us before we even stepped into their country.

Really?

Colin Powell hand carried a check to the Taliban for $43 million in April 2001. I would say gratitude and joy might describe that relationship better than hatred.

Saddam was our fair-haired son for about a decade, getting all sorts of Commerce Dept loans and weapons including biological and chemical weapons. That doesn't really sound like hatred to me.
 
Did anyone read the memo? And if so, can they describe in concise language how they tried to get around the 4th amendment?

Even if anyone did, it was redacted so no one can know its details. It's the 5th, 9th and 14th Amendments that they're violating (even without the memo), not the 4th. No memo can override the Bill of Rights or any part of the Constitution.
 
Really?

Colin Powell hand carried a check to the Taliban for $43 million in April 2001. I would say gratitude and joy might describe that relationship better than hatred.

Saddam was our fair-haired son for about a decade, getting all sorts of Commerce Dept loans and weapons including biological and chemical weapons. That doesn't really sound like hatred to me.

I know and that was all before 9-11. you're talking the 1980's, the USSR had invaded Afghanistan, we were the enemy of the USSR and we were giving weapons to any and all the tribes of Afghanistan to counter that. Giving them to all 18 tribes which the taliban was but one. The largest for sure, but just one. The enemy of Afghanistan enemy was not Afghanistan's friend. But the Taliban's attitude changed later on when they allied with 3 other tribes trying to bring all of Afghanistan and its other 14 tribes which became the Northern Alliance under the rule on one tribe. For a thousand years if not more the tribes in Afghanistan ruled their own little area of that country, not wanting any other tribal leader to rule over but one of their own. Each tribe maintained their independence by a series of shifting alliances with other tribes to combat any tribe who tried to rule over them. Also the Taliban gave UBL and AQ a safe heaven, sanctuary, and a place to train his group to wage their jihad against the west. By 2000 Afghanistan and her people, the tribal leaders attitude toward us had changed drastically.

After 9-11 when the Taliban refused to hand over UBL or cease in letting him and AQ use Afghanistan as a sanctuary and training facility, we sent feelers to the tribal leaders which made up the Northern Alliance offering our help. Naturally all 14 leaders accepted. For the Northern alliance, once again the enemy of their enemy was their friend. But today we have turn around half of the 14 tribal leaders and their people against us, but that is another subject for another day on another thread as to why.

Sure we were back Saddam, another case where the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Iran, the U.S. hadn't forgot the hostage situation and anyone who opposed Iran automatically became our friend. It was like we trusted Saddam or even like him, but he was in a war with Iran and we helped him. He was by no means our fair haired boy. He was more of a convenience, a way to strike back at Iran and we really did little to support him outside of some intel and perhaps some minor weapons, no CBR or NBC type weapons. The USSR did most of the weapons supplying. The really sad thing is a misunderstanding between Gillipse if I spell her name right, our Ambassador to Iraq and Saddam is what lead to his invading Kuwait. Saddam had thought Gillipse had said basically that the differences Iraq and Kuwait was having was their problem, not the U.S.'s. Hence Saddam thought he had the green light from the U.S. to do what ever he wanted to do with Kuwait.

This is about the same as Truman when identifying our sphere of influence in Asia while visiting Japan left the country of Korea off his list. The North Korean's then thought the U.S. wouldn't care if they invaded South Korea, after all Truman just said that Korea wasn't in our sphere of influence or in this case, defense.
 
Even if anyone did, it was redacted so no one can know its details. It's the 5th, 9th and 14th Amendments that they're violating (even without the memo), not the 4th. No memo can override the Bill of Rights or any part of the Constitution.

How about an executive order? Can that override the Bill of Rights or the Constitution?
 
How about an executive order? Can that override the Bill of Rights or the Constitution?

Not legally. If that were true, why couldn't the POTUS issue an executive order to assassinate his political opponents under pretext that they're a danger to national security? There's only one mechanism that can override the Constitution, an Amendment, but then it becomes part of the Constitution.
 
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