Page 4 of 10 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 97

Thread: U.S. Memo Outlines Rationale for Drone Strikes on Citizens

  1. #31
    Sage
    Perotista's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Georgia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:26 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    17,917
    Blog Entries
    24

    Re: U.S. Memo Outlines Rationale for Drone Strikes on Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    It's a clear situation however of whether or not we want to be a nation of laws or a nation of people making arbitrary rules on a whim.
    All well and good for the ones sitting in a nice cozy home and not out there taking the risks against someone you already captured once. It's bad enough to have to face these guys once, let alone when your fellow Americans send them back a second time, give them a second chance to succeed in killing more U.S. soldiers when they failed the first time.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

  2. #32
    Sage
    poweRob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:14 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    34,837

    Re: U.S. Memo Outlines Rationale for Drone Strikes on Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    All well and good for the ones sitting in a nice cozy home and not out there taking the risks against someone you already captured once. It's bad enough to have to face these guys once, let alone when your fellow Americans send them back a second time, give them a second chance to succeed in killing more U.S. soldiers when they failed the first time.
    I see your point but what about law?
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    The sad fact is that having a pedophile win is better than having a Democrat in office. I'm all for a solution where a Republican gets in that isn't Moore.

  3. #33
    Sage
    Perotista's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Georgia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:26 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    17,917
    Blog Entries
    24

    Re: U.S. Memo Outlines Rationale for Drone Strikes on Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It's the process that's of main concern, no?
    The process is fairly simple, fly a drone over the target, drop a bomb, retrieve the drone. Snipers are out of vogue nowadays.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

  4. #34
    Sage
    Perotista's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Georgia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:26 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    17,917
    Blog Entries
    24

    Re: U.S. Memo Outlines Rationale for Drone Strikes on Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    I see your point but what about law?
    Supposedly any combatant captured is to be treated as a POW, now terrorist do not exactly fall into that category, but one could probably put the Taliban fighters into. That is basically what we have at Gitmo. According to the Geneva Convention POW's do not have to be released prior to the war's ending. POW's also do not fall under U.S. law, they fall under the UCMJ. Or at least that was what I learned.

    Now President Obama wants to treat these guys and have them fall under U.S. criminal law like anyone one who robbed a 7-11 or liquor store. Now if they were captured within U.S. borders I could understand that, although even then if he was a Taliban or AQ member he could be treated as a spy or saboteur. Once again with the military taking jurisdiction. Capturing the enemy overseas until President Obama has always been purely military.

    As far as I am concerned, President Obama has brought an aspect into all of this that doesn't belong and has never belong or was done until he took the office of the president. By this nation or any other I might add.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

  5. #35
    Sage
    Montecresto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Last Seen
    03-13-16 @ 11:59 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    24,561

    Re: U.S. Memo Outlines Rationale for Drone Strikes on Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    The process is fairly simple, fly a drone over the target, drop a bomb, retrieve the drone. Snipers are out of vogue nowadays.
    Haha, funny you. For every one "alleged" enemy combatant, ten civilians are killed, and then there's the execution without due process point.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  6. #36
    Sage
    poweRob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:14 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    34,837

    Re: U.S. Memo Outlines Rationale for Drone Strikes on Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    Supposedly any combatant captured is to be treated as a POW, now terrorist do not exactly fall into that category, but one could probably put the Taliban fighters into. That is basically what we have at Gitmo. According to the Geneva Convention POW's do not have to be released prior to the war's ending. POW's also do not fall under U.S. law, they fall under the UCMJ. Or at least that was what I learned.

    Now President Obama wants to treat these guys and have them fall under U.S. criminal law like anyone one who robbed a 7-11 or liquor store. Now if they were captured within U.S. borders I could understand that, although even then if he was a Taliban or AQ member he could be treated as a spy or saboteur. Once again with the military taking jurisdiction. Capturing the enemy overseas until President Obama has always been purely military.

    As far as I am concerned, President Obama has brought an aspect into all of this that doesn't belong and has never belong or was done until he took the office of the president. By this nation or any other I might add.
    I can understand having it under military law or under civilian law. Either way so long as there is law. What I'm opposed to is fabricating a nonexistent third way so as to no abide by law at all and just make things up as we go. Which is what the Bush admin did with declaring terrorist not under the purview of civilian law but are enemies who are also not under military rules of engagement either.

    I think our justice system is where they belong. We need to lead by example and the best example is consistency IMO. It worked well for the blind sheik, Timothy McVeigh, Ted Bundy, the Ted Kacisnsky and all other sorts of people who've terrorized the nation over time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    The sad fact is that having a pedophile win is better than having a Democrat in office. I'm all for a solution where a Republican gets in that isn't Moore.

  7. #37
    Sage
    Perotista's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Georgia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:26 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    17,917
    Blog Entries
    24

    Re: U.S. Memo Outlines Rationale for Drone Strikes on Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Haha, funny you. For every one "alleged" enemy combatant, ten civilians are killed, and then there's the execution without due process point.
    You know, this may sound pretty harsh but war is war. We try as hard as we can to prevent civilian casualties, the other side doesn't give a darn. We really on our side fight a gentleman's war as much as possible. We have so many rules and regulations to follow that the other side doesn't it at times creates an uneven battlefield.

    They tell me the last good war, the last declared was was WWII, with its fire bombing of Dresden and Tokyo. With the London Blitz, the targeting of civilians and their cities on purpose. That war was fought to win and we won. War is ugly and nasty, it is about killing people and breaking things, perhaps if we fought all wars like we did in WWII, there wouldn't be as many. Perhaps if we made congress to actually declare war instead of a resolution which is nothing more than an opinion of congress, there wouldn't be so many. If we put all the United States on a war footing like we did in WWII to include rationing and war bonds and the like, perhaps we wouldn't have so many. But today we try to make it seem like there is no war going on at all for the civilians in the United States, we try to keep their lives as normal as if there were no war at all. If every citizen knew they would have to make sacrifices if war is declared, perhaps we wouldn't have so many.

    But if we have one, if we declare war on a nation we should go in to win the dang thing, throw everything we got to include the kitchen sink and then get our boys home where they belong.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

  8. #38
    Sage
    Perotista's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Georgia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:26 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    17,917
    Blog Entries
    24

    Re: U.S. Memo Outlines Rationale for Drone Strikes on Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    I can understand having it under military law or under civilian law. Either way so long as there is law. What I'm opposed to is fabricating a nonexistent third way so as to no abide by law at all and just make things up as we go. Which is what the Bush admin did with declaring terrorist not under the purview of civilian law but are enemies who are also not under military rules of engagement either.

    I think our justice system is where they belong. We need to lead by example and the best example is consistency IMO. It worked well for the blind sheik, Timothy McVeigh, Ted Bundy, the Ted Kacisnsky and all other sorts of people who've terrorized the nation over time.
    I suppose what you describe is why they are called detainees instead of POW's. Any terrorist, which they are not considered a military unit under Geneva, like I said, more like a saboteur or spy. I think a military tribunal could handle them. I suspect all of the 150 or whatever number is left at Gitmo could easily and quickly be judged by a military tribunal. Probably within 6 months to a year. But President Obama refuses to do so, he wants them all in a civilian court of law. So there is your catch 22 again. One side saying no to the civilian law side and the other saying no to the military law side and all those in Gitmo caught in-between. At least that was the way it was 2 years ago when I retired.

    the blind sheik, Timothy McVeigh, Ted Bundy, the Ted Kacisnsky were all caught within the borders of the United States and all were U.S. citizens that I know of, in the case of the sheik, he may have been a legal resident but not a citizen. None of those were caught in our war overseas. Different situations and circumstances and they in reality have nothing in common with those caught overseas. Trying to make it so doesn't make it so.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

  9. #39
    Sage
    Montecresto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Last Seen
    03-13-16 @ 11:59 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    24,561

    Re: U.S. Memo Outlines Rationale for Drone Strikes on Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    You know, this may sound pretty harsh but war is war. We try as hard as we can to prevent civilian casualties, the other side doesn't give a darn. We really on our side fight a gentleman's war as much as possible. We have so many rules and regulations to follow that the other side doesn't it at times creates an uneven battlefield.

    They tell me the last good war, the last declared was was WWII, with its fire bombing of Dresden and Tokyo. With the London Blitz, the targeting of civilians and their cities on purpose. That war was fought to win and we won. War is ugly and nasty, it is about killing people and breaking things, perhaps if we fought all wars like we did in WWII, there wouldn't be as many. Perhaps if we made congress to actually declare war instead of a resolution which is nothing more than an opinion of congress, there wouldn't be so many. If we put all the United States on a war footing like we did in WWII to include rationing and war bonds and the like, perhaps we wouldn't have so many. But today we try to make it seem like there is no war going on at all for the civilians in the United States, we try to keep their lives as normal as if there were no war at all. If every citizen knew they would have to make sacrifices if war is declared, perhaps we wouldn't have so many.

    But if we have one, if we declare war on a nation we should go in to win the dang thing, throw everything we got to include the kitchen sink and then get our boys home where they belong.
    But that hasn't anything to do with drones, civilian casualties and the lack of due process.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  10. #40
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Where I am now
    Last Seen
    09-11-17 @ 03:00 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    16,386

    Re: U.S. Memo Outlines Rationale for Drone Strikes on Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    This means that our government can kill any American they want by fiat, on just their say so, without a trial, and without having to present evidence. This alone should be considered grounds for Obama's impeachment.
    I don't know about the impeachment part...but I agree 100% with everything else.

    It's staggering the blind obedience people have to all that is government...like little trained minions, they believe whatever they are told when the government throws words like 'patriotism' and 'national security' around.

    So, what is to legally stop the POTUS assassinating ANYONE he feels like - even political enemies when they are abroad - on his say so that they are terrorists?

    If this is they way America is going, where her people are fine with their leader being able to legally murder anyone he feels like, whenever he feels like...then I hope America goes the way of the Roman Empire and ends.


    And, btw, I am neither Rep nor Dem.
    Last edited by DA60; 06-24-14 at 01:47 AM.

Page 4 of 10 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •