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Thread: Republicans: Obama must defend Christian values

  1. #221
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    Re: Republicans: Obama must defend Christian values

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    It seems to me that those who try to stifle free speech, quite common now in the Universities and among the PC, are less likely to be Christian. The concept of "Hate Speech" being introduced into law in some of the democracies has also not been lobbied by Christians.
    I haven't seen any evidence of true attempts to stifle free speech, at least none directed specifically at Christians or other religions.

    I'm not aware of any specific "hate speech" laws being introduced into the US. I do know that many Christian nations (as in those that are or have been run by Christian religions) usually have laws against blasphemy, which is a law against speaking against a religion or certain parts of a religion. Now, there are some countries now that are banning hate speech by anyone. But this should also include hate speech against Christians. I don't really agree with such laws, but they are not being used (or shouldn't be) against just Christians. Everyone is subject to those laws.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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    Re: Republicans: Obama must defend Christian values

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    It's easy enough to see whether or not they are following the teachings of Jesus by watching them in action and then deciding if it related to anything Jesus said, did or taught. The 'No True Scotsman' argument doesn't apply here, by the way.
    Yes, it does. Because your interpretation of what Jesus put out is not necessarily the same as other people's interpretation. Your belief as to what exactly Jesus said or believed isn't going to be the same as someone else's belief.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Republicans: Obama must defend Christian values

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    If you are old enough to use a computer you should be able to determine what Christian values are. Do you know what "The Golden Rule" is?

    the golden rule is not exclusively Christian

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    Re: Republicans: Obama must defend Christian values

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    Leading Republicans on Thursday insisted that America's leaders must do more to defend Christian values at home and abroad, blaming President Barack Obama for attacks on religious freedom as they courted religious conservatives expected to play a crucial role in the next presidential contest.

    Read more of this article here: http://news.yahoo.com/republicans-ob...lues-192212780




    If these guys had said that Obama must defend America's 1st Amendment values they would have had my and a lot of other peoples support.

    I don't believe that this will win many elections for them.

    BTW: if anyone can point out where it says in the U.S. Constitution that defending Christian values is the presidents job, I'd like to see it.

    This sounds like a bunch of far right religious malarkey to me.




    "Better days are coming." ~ But not for today's out of touch, running out of time, GOP
    It's not the presidents job to advance the interests of any religion! **** Christianity!!
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Republicans: Obama must defend Christian values

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Here is nuke's statement:Colombia, Mexico, Nicaragua, El Salvador etc. were founded by Christians. Yet they couldn't be further from the US in terms of politics, culture and economy. Why is that?
    I've mentioned spending most of the past 20 years in Central America and had the same attitude as many here about Christianity before arriving. I learned that there are very corrupt cultures in Latin America with one to several families controlling each country, and laws quite distant from the American Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

    Because of police incompetence and corruption religion is the only thing that keeps people from turning on each other because police laziness and lack of training will assure you get away with murder. But the fear of Hell and the love of God has a profound effect on the people and they are able to endure hardships that many in the more consistent democracies, with a free media, would not accept.

    Christianity, like any religion, is easy to criticize, and deservedly so, but sometimes perspective is required rather than the cliche of all priests being child molesters, etc. I've met a few down there and they were all good people, just like most of us.

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    Re: Republicans: Obama must defend Christian values

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Christianity thru the centuries has probably kill more people than all other religions put together so I'd get off that high horse.
    You have evidence of this? Where would atheists fit in?

    And as for treatment of women....only very very recently has that changed...even our American laws made women subservient...and some STILL do. However just like in Islam, most of those women do so willingly to follow their religion. I feel that in both cases the women are misguided but in the majority of cases on both sides it is done by ignorance and indoctrination, not force.
    You have no idea what you are talking about. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7c_zppPutQw The Violent Oppression of Women in Islam (rated X) - PopModal Video

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    Re: Republicans: Obama must defend Christian values

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    It is thought that those calling themselves Christians have values based on the teachings of Jesus Christ while those who would call themselves atheist or agnostic would have values which are less clear.
    I'd say you're right. Your point being...?

    Although Bill Clinton and Barrack Obama both claimed to be Christian I doubt anyone felt they were too serious about it, but their claims were enough to satisfy many voters.
    I can't speak for everyone else who voted for either former Pres. Clinton or Pres. Obama, but I didn't vote for either because of their religious faith. Don't get me wrong; I understand that one's faith in many ways shapes his/her moral values, but few voters consider "credibility" when initially deciding on a candidate for public office. That only comes into play when an issue questioning the candidate's morality and/or ethics comes into play. Until such time, most voters are looking at issues that are closer to the vest, as well as, which candidate they think can better lead the country.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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    Re: Republicans: Obama must defend Christian values

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    I haven't seen any evidence of true attempts to stifle free speech, at least none directed specifically at Christians or other religions.
    What do you mean by a 'true attempts'?
    I'm not aware of any specific "hate speech" laws being introduced into the US.
    Though I mentioned the democracies the US First Amendment is a wonderful thing which helps keep free speech free. Every country should have it. Nonetheless there have been attempts.
    In January, 2009, the National Hispanic Media Coalition (NHMC),[80] a nonprofit organization with a mission to improve the image of American Latinos as portrayed by the media, unveiled a three prong strategy to address the issue of hate speech in media. 1) NHMC filed a petition for inquiry into hate speech with the Federal Communications Commission (FCC).[81] The petition urges the Commission to examine the extent and effects of hate speech in media, including the likely link between hate speech and hate crimes, and to explore non-regulatory ways in which to counteract its negative impacts. 2) NHMC asked the National Telecommunications and Information Administration (NTIA) to update its 1993 report “The Role of Telecommunications in Hate Crimes”; 3) NHMC collaborated with the UCLA/Chicano Research Study Center (CRSC) to produce groundbreaking research on the subject. “Hate Speech on Commercial Radio, Preliminary Report on a Pilot Study” was also released in January 2009.[82][83]

    “Hate Speech on Commercial Radio” categorized hate speech in four different areas.

    False facts
    Flawed argumentation
    Divisive language
    Dehumanizing metaphors
    In May 2010, NHMC filed comments in the FCC’s proceeding on the Future of Media and Information Needs of Communities in the Digital Age.[84] Joined by 32 national and regional organizations from throughout the country, the comments ask the FCC to examine hate speech in media. In its comments, NHMC reinforces the need for the FCC to act on NHMC’s petition for inquiry on hate speech in media filed in January 2009.
    And these are the leaders of tomorrow. Free Speech: Campus Hate Speech Codes
    I do know that many Christian nations (as in those that are or have been run by Christian religions) usually have laws against blasphemy, which is a law against speaking against a religion or certain parts of a religion.
    You probably mean Islamic nations. I don't know of anyone who has been charged under blasphemy laws in any Christian dominated country.
    Now, there are some countries now that are banning hate speech by anyone. But this should also include hate speech against Christians. I don't really agree with such laws, but they are not being used (or shouldn't be) against just Christians. Everyone is subject to those laws.
    These laws against free speech, or hate speech laws can be misused greatly. Look at the reasons above for limiting free speech "False facts, Flawed argumentation, Divisive language, Dehumanizing metaphors". We can easily see where this can lead if hate speech laws are ever implemented.

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    Re: Republicans: Obama must defend Christian values

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    What do you mean by a 'true attempts'?
    Though I mentioned the democracies the US First Amendment is a wonderful thing which helps keep free speech free. Every country should have it. Nonetheless there have been attempts.
    And these are the leaders of tomorrow. Free Speech: Campus Hate Speech Codes
    You probably mean Islamic nations. I don't know of anyone who has been charged under blasphemy laws in any Christian dominated country.
    These laws against free speech, or hate speech laws can be misused greatly. Look at the reasons above for limiting free speech "False facts, Flawed argumentation, Divisive language, Dehumanizing metaphors". We can easily see where this can lead if hate speech laws are ever implemented.
    Campuses have a legitimate interest in ensuring the learning environment is conducive to learning for everyone.

    Europe has had blasphemy laws of some sort in place for centuries, if not longer. Now, this is changing or has changed for the most part, but it has only been very recently for this change. We have had blasphemy laws in the past too, although they did not stand up well because of our 1st Amendment. But that doesn't mean they have not existed, particularly in certain states.

    Blasphemy law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Blasphemy law in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    "The history of Maryland's blasphemy statutes suggests that even into the 1930s, the First Amendment was not recognized as preventing states from passing such laws. An 1879 codification of Maryland statutes prohibited blasphemy:"

    These laws, when they were in place in our states, existed explicitly about preventing people from bad-talking Christianity or "God".

    Proposal of unconstitutional laws or regulations by outside organizations that stand pretty much no chance of getting put into place, let alone surviving a SCOTUS review are not legitimate attempts.

    You cannot show that hate speech laws would be implemented in the US. You are fearmongering.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Republicans: Obama must defend Christian values

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Campuses have a legitimate interest in ensuring the learning environment is conducive to learning for everyone.
    And they are learning that free speech can and should be controlled.These are the citizens of tomorrow learning that muzzling someone else's speech is a good and sensible idea. You can bet that 'the offended' will only be from one side, and a powerful one.

    Europe has had blasphemy laws of some sort in place for centuries, if not longer. Now, this is changing or has changed for the most part, but it has only been very recently for this change. We have had blasphemy laws in the past too, although they did not stand up well because of our 1st Amendment. But that doesn't mean they have not existed, particularly in certain states. "The history of Maryland's blasphemy statutes suggests that even into the 1930s, the First Amendment was not recognized as preventing states from passing such laws. An 1879 codification of Maryland statutes prohibited blasphemy:"

    These laws, when they were in place in our states, existed explicitly about preventing people from bad-talking Christianity or "God".
    No one enforces these laws. But the free speech laws on campuses are being enforced and you support them
    Proposal of unconstitutional laws or regulations by outside organizations that stand pretty much no chance of getting put into place, let alone surviving a SCOTUS review are not legitimate attempts. You cannot show that hate speech laws would be implemented in the US. You are fearmongering.
    No one has been enforcing blasphemy laws for decades but why should it matter to you? You said that "Campuses have a legitimate interest in ensuring the learning environment is conducive to learning for everyone". Christians regarded that blasphemy laws promoted the peace as well, and Muslims control speech by threatening murder or riots and they maintain peace that way. So you learn by keeping your opinions to yourself.

    Fear-mongering? Many Americans are not afraid because, like you, they feel there should be laws in place to prevent people from being offended. You already have hate speech laws on campuses and you support them.. Now you have "Constitution free zones' that effect almost 2/3 of the population. You have a President who challenges the Constitution and the Supreme Court regularly and now says he will ignore Congress altogether. And many Americans still support him. As Ben F., 'You have a Republic if you can keep it'. Stifling speech may not be a wise way to go about keeping it but 'it's a free country'..
    Last edited by Grant; 07-02-14 at 11:12 AM.

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