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Thread: Republicans: Obama must defend Christian values

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    Re: Republicans: Obama must defend Christian values

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    It might not be wise to use Uganda, or any African country, as the best Christianity has to offer. Again they are reading the OT, with which I have little use, and are not following the teachings of Jesus Christ, which is exclusive to the NT. In fact there is a great deal of stifling of free speech though you might not be aware of it because mush of it may not arrive at your inbox. Perhaps you can start a thread on the subject.

    When you talk of "the Bible" you should separate the OT from the NT. If Christians are against foul language or public nudity then they are clearly losing the battle. Who is winning?
    Look. You are not understanding that other Christians use the OT to justify their actions but that does not make them not Christians just because they do not believe the same things you do about what parts of the Bible apply.

    There is not a "great deal of stifling of free speech". Much of what people want to claim is stifling free speech is reactions to people saying things others don't approve of. That is not stifling free speech.

    One of the greatest examples in the past is the Dixie Chicks incident. That was blown up as people trying to take away their free speech. Guess what? It wasn't. It was a protest in reaction to what they said. They were free to say more, as they did. But others are also free to react (in legal ways) to what they said, including not buying their stuff, not hiring them, not playing their music on air, talking negatively about them, and more. The same thing works for others when it comes to same sex marriage and homosexuality. Both sides have faced people who got "stifled" over this. Recently, it is more the anti-ssm people because the tide has turned. But no one is prevented from speaking negatively about either homosexuality, homosexuals, or same sex marriage. But they are facing consequences (fair and unfair) for what they say and do, just as others do when they say other things.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  2. #162
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    Re: Republicans: Obama must defend Christian values

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Just calling yourself a Christian doesn't make you one. I feel that too many people who call themselves Christians are overly influenced by the OT, causing many of them to behave irrationally.
    Believing in Jesus and Jesus is the way to God is the only thing it takes to be a Christian. Again, you are committing the "No True Scotsman" logical fallacy here.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Republicans: Obama must defend Christian values

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeTrumps View Post
    yes, because public opinion always waits until there is "proof in a court of law" before making judgement on public figures. yep yep
    No, but if at a later date that proof arises and you just dig in further, that's the conspiracy nut.

    You see, being wrong doesn't make you a tinfoil hatter. Being wrong, discovering you are wrong, and then stubbornly inventing more and more elaborate reasons why you secretly are right makes you one.

    Being a birther in 2008 meant you might just be ignorant. (Some people honestly had just not been aware of that proof, limiting yourself to ultra right wing media will do that) Being a birther in 2014 means you're insane.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
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    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  4. #164
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    Re: Republicans: Obama must defend Christian values

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Look. You are not understanding that other Christians use the OT to justify their actions but that does not make them not Christians just because they do not believe the same things you do about what parts of the Bible apply.

    There is not a "great deal of stifling of free speech". Much of what people want to claim is stifling free speech is reactions to people saying things others don't approve of. That is not stifling free speech.

    One of the greatest examples in the past is the Dixie Chicks incident. That was blown up as people trying to take away their free speech. Guess what? It wasn't. It was a protest in reaction to what they said. They were free to say more, as they did. But others are also free to react (in legal ways) to what they said, including not buying their stuff, not hiring them, not playing their music on air, talking negatively about them, and more. The same thing works for others when it comes to same sex marriage and homosexuality. Both sides have faced people who got "stifled" over this. Recently, it is more the anti-ssm people because the tide has turned. But no one is prevented from speaking negatively about either homosexuality, homosexuals, or same sex marriage. But they are facing consequences (fair and unfair) for what they say and do, just as others do when they say other things.
    The Dixie Chicks incident was a minor kerfuffle years ago and Christians had every right to do what they did in protest, just as the Dixie Chicks had every right to say what they did.

    Christians, like the Black majority and Muslims, have every right to speak out against Gay marriage or any social issue, which they do.. Recall Barrack Obama, also apparently a Christian, was against Gay marriage and that Blacks and Latinos also supported Proposition 8 in California?

    What's happening is that it is Christians, more than any other group, who are being criticized for their opinions. But I'm sure they can handle it.

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    Re: Republicans: Obama must defend Christian values

    I'm white. I'm 26. I'm American. I'm Atheist.


    The last thing we need is Christian values. Just look how f*cked up your average cross wearing Christian person is and how pissed off they constantly are over their fairy tales not being followed precisely.

  6. #166
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    Re: Republicans: Obama must defend Christian values

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    Leading Republicans on Thursday insisted that America's leaders must do more to defend Christian values at home and abroad, blaming President Barack Obama for attacks on religious freedom as they courted religious conservatives expected to play a crucial role in the next presidential contest.

    Read more of this article here: http://news.yahoo.com/republicans-ob...lues-192212780




    If these guys had said that Obama must defend America's 1st Amendment values they would have had my and a lot of other peoples support.

    I don't believe that this will win many elections for them.

    BTW: if anyone can point out where it says in the U.S. Constitution that defending Christian values is the presidents job, I'd like to see it.

    This sounds like a bunch of far right religious malarkey to me.




    "Better days are coming." ~ But not for today's out of touch, running out of time, GOP
    Must? that's a hoot.

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    Re: Republicans: Obama must defend Christian values

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    The Dixie Chicks incident was a minor kerfuffle years ago and Christians had every right to do what they did in protest, just as the Dixie Chicks had every right to say what they did.

    Christians, like the Black majority and Muslims, have every right to speak out against Gay marriage or any social issue, which they do.. Recall Barrack Obama, also apparently a Christian, was against Gay marriage and that Blacks and Latinos also supported Proposition 8 in California?

    What's happening is that it is Christians, more than any other group, who are being criticized for their opinions. But I'm sure they can handle it.
    No, Christians are not being criticized fir their opinions. Social conservative control freaks are, and rightfully so.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

  8. #168
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    Re: Republicans: Obama must defend Christian values

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    The Dixie Chicks incident was a minor kerfuffle years ago and Christians had every right to do what they did in protest, just as the Dixie Chicks had every right to say what they did.

    Christians, like the Black majority and Muslims, have every right to speak out against Gay marriage or any social issue, which they do.. Recall Barrack Obama, also apparently a Christian, was against Gay marriage and that Blacks and Latinos also supported Proposition 8 in California?

    What's happening is that it is Christians, more than any other group, who are being criticized for their opinions. But I'm sure they can handle it.
    I'm not Christian and I still don't buy anything from the Dixie Chicks. The point was the response is not stifling free speech but it is no different than others who do basically the same thing that was done to the Dixie Chicks to people like voice their opinion on same sex marriage or homosexuality.

    It doesn't matter who may have been against something in the past. People change their minds. In 1970, 70% of the US population still believed that interracial relationships were wrong and should be illegal still. By 1985, that had come pretty close to half the population thinking differently. This wasn't all due to young people growing up. It was due to people changing their minds. Just like this guy:

    Republican senator with gay son now backs gay marriage | Reuters

    This is what happens when people you know and love are gay and you realize that they aren't different from you and they just want to be treated equally.

    Anyone has a right to speak out against or for anything they want, but that does not absolve them of social consequences of what they say or do (even when it's legal), as we seen with the Dixie Chicks, Paula Dean, Mel Gibson, Michael Richards, and others. We have seen it on both sides, so it is not right to pretend it has only happened to "Christians" or those who are against same sex marriage or homosexuality. Carrie Underwood faced backlash from supporting it.

    Celebrities Who Were Caught Being Racist | List of Offensive Celeb Comments (Page 6)

    Carrie Underwood Faced Backlash for Supporting Gay Marriage - Us Weekly

    Eventhough, a lot of famous female (at least) country singers support it, including Dolly Parton, Reba McEntire, and Martina McBride. Even many male country singers and bands support it. And this is a group whose main fans are going to be the most likely people to be anti-ssm. When JC Penny's ran an ad a few father's days back featuring two gay fathers, people were calling for a boycott.

    JCPenney Responds to Homophobic Boycott Calls with Gay Father's Day Ad

    The same thing happened to Nabisco when they ran ads with rainbow colored Oreos in support of same sex marriage. Honey Maid faced a call for a boycott just in the past year over its commercial featuring (omg) a gay couple with a kid.

    Nabisco's Gay-Inclusive Honey Maid/Teddy Grahams Commercial Slammed By One Million Moms

    So yes, there are calls to boycott brands/people from those who are anti-ssm just as much as from those who are pro-ssm. They fail. Why? Because the majority are major household brands/names that people don't want to give up over such a stupid issue. In reality, the who Eich thing should not have gone where it did (I didn't approve), but it was due mainly to a company worried about their bottom line and recognizing that people support same sex marriage, especially young people, more than they are against it and that their main demographics in many areas (but especially technology) is young people. People overreact.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Republicans: Obama must defend Christian values

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Can you effectively say who is "left" and who is "right" though? I've made that mistake myself before with some people and they have made that same mistake with me. Some views I am left of and some I am right of. The whole defining who is left and who is right is difficult in many cases. How do you determine who is right and left when they hold multiple stances of both?
    Overall? Why would I need to attach that label to know how they stand on a singular issue like this? all I need do is read their stance.

    For example, I am pretty sure that you would say I am "right wing" right? But on some things like gay issues I don't hold the typical right wing viewpoint. does that change my leanings?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Republicans: Obama must defend Christian values

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan5 View Post
    I'm white. I'm 26. I'm American. I'm Atheist.


    The last thing we need is Christian values. Just look how f*cked up your average cross wearing Christian person is and how pissed off they constantly are over their fairy tales not being followed precisely.
    What frightens you so much about Christians?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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