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Thread: Republicans: Obama must defend Christian values

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    Re: Republicans: Obama must defend Christian values

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Millions, many millions around the world, are Christian. You think it is only common in the United States??
    Of course.

    How often does it need explaining that calling yourself a Christian doesn't really make you one. It might be an aspiration but there also might be, or likely be, failings along the line.
    First of all, I never said Christians are only found in the US. I mentioned the US because it is US politicians calling for other US politicians to defend Christianity (despite Christianity not needing anymore defending than any other faith, in general). We, as a country, do not live by "Christian values". Many of us live by values, some which happen to be found within the Christian religion, as those values are also found within other religions and even just philosophies around the world.

    Second, calling yourself a Christian is the only way for others to determine if you are Christian or not. Otherwise, there would be no true Christians, since everyone falls short. We don't know what's in a person's heart. But the only thing that really says whether a person is a Christian or not is that they believe that Jesus is the way to reach Heaven or know God. That is it. Bad Christians are still Christians. You don't get to discount them just because you don't want to be associated with them.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  2. #92
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    Re: Republicans: Obama must defend Christian values

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    I shall be a Christian in this instance and say that your knowledge of history is incomplete.
    No it isn't. Many of the ideals we use came from other cultures that existed prior to Christianity, including Ancient Rome and Greece. Intelligent people added to those ideals, working to make a country that was truly for all people. But belief in Christianity did not cause those beliefs.

    The biggest thing that seems to lead to the values of freedom and rights for common people is not Christianity or any other religion for that matter. It is reason, and groups of people who are being treated differently for what they believe in, or how they look, or what class they were born into, and don't like it. Once people start using reason to think through things, they come to realize that there is no reason why a single person or a small group of people should have power over other people and be treated better. Eventually, this reasoning, along with human compassion, leads to looking at the other side as well and seeing how other people should not be treated worse just due to things such as the color of their skin or their gender.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Republicans: Obama must defend Christian values

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeTrumps View Post
    The fact that the Bible is even INVOLVED when a President takes office kind of hurts your argument, no?
    It is tradition. A President does not have to use the Bible. The reason it has been that the President has is based on his personal belief systems and our belief that oaths are better made when connected to a personal belief system rather than just made. Unfortunately, there would be some massive outrage right now if they didn't because so many people want to believe the myth that we are a "Christian nation", rather than just a nation with a lot of Christians. Just like when I reenlist, God is mentioned in the oath. I can choose to have the oath changed to omit the "so help me God" part. History has led to us having many traditions that are rooted in Christianity, but those traditions are not requirements.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Republicans: Obama must defend Christian values

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    wrong religious freedoms are garenteed in the constutition which would include christian values. so yes they should be defende along with other religious freedoms. if you don't think we should defend religious freedoms then that is a different argument.
    So your was for a Muslim Cultural Center near the World Trade Center site?

    If you read the 1st Amendment- so many 'authorities' don't- 'Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;'

    The 1st quite simply prohibits the Federal government from creating a 'State Religion' or denying any religion the ability to set up a place of worship and allow citizens free access.

    I'm always curious what a poster means by defending christian values, and then a vague wave of the hand to other religion's values....

    Does one 'defend' Christian values by enforcing a religion's opinion on abortion, gay marriage, polygamy, divorce on the nation? What happens when Christian values conflict with another religions, such as Orthodox Judaism or Sharia law?

    Should Bible burners be charged with a crime? How about Qu'ran burners?

    I'd say the Founders were very clever in stopping where they did and not making mention of 'values' in the Constitution... that should keep us on the proper path, Insha'Allah....

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    Re: Republicans: Obama must defend Christian values

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    First of all, I never said Christians are only found in the US. I mentioned the US because it is US politicians calling for other US politicians to defend Christianity (despite Christianity not needing anymore defending than any other faith, in general). We, as a country, do not live by "Christian values". Many of us live by values, some which happen to be found within the Christian religion, as those values are also found within other religions and even just philosophies around the world.
    Could there be a more uninformed, harsh, and just plain wrong statement than what you posted here??? I think not.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Republicans: Obama must defend Christian values

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeTrumps View Post
    The fact that the Bible is even INVOLVED when a President takes office kind of hurts your argument, no?
    No, because the President is placing the Constitution above the Bible when swearing in. He has a duty to it, not the Bible.
    "Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough."
    -FDR

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    Re: Republicans: Obama must defend Christian values

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    Leading Republicans on Thursday insisted that America's leaders must do more to defend Christian values at home and abroad, blaming President Barack Obama for attacks on religious freedom as they courted religious conservatives expected to play a crucial role in the next presidential contest.

    Read more of this article here: http://news.yahoo.com/republicans-ob...lues-192212780




    If these guys had said that Obama must defend America's 1st Amendment values they would have had my and a lot of other peoples support.

    I don't believe that this will win many elections for them.

    BTW: if anyone can point out where it says in the U.S. Constitution that defending Christian values is the presidents job, I'd like to see it.

    This sounds like a bunch of far right religious malarkey to me.




    "Better days are coming." ~ But not for today's out of touch, running out of time, GOP
    republicans claim to want to bring democray to the other parts of the world but they hate to see it in USA
    "Sovereignty is not given, it is taken." ATATÜRK

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    Re: Republicans: Obama must defend Christian values

    Quote Originally Posted by Medusa View Post
    republicans claim to want to bring democray to the other parts of the world but they hate to see it in USA
    The USA is a republic primarily - not a democracy.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Republicans: Obama must defend Christian values

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    The USA is a republic primarily - not a democracy.
    sometimes no word is enough to express what l feel .
    "Sovereignty is not given, it is taken." ATATÜRK

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    Re: Republicans: Obama must defend Christian values

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Could there be a more uninformed, harsh, and just plain wrong statement than what you posted here??? I think not.
    Okay, I'll bite. What part of her post that you quoted do you think is so wrong?

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