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IRS: So… Our Computer Crashed And Erased All Of Lois Lerner’s Emails

Slyfox696 said:
Of course it is.

I'm sure.
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Uh huh... That's kind of the point. This is IT proof. Once set up, it is hands free, and the only thing an IT Admin would ever need to do is go plug it back in if someone unplugged it. ;)

Not to mention that most Federal entities I do business with (Heck even local ones) have redundancy to 2, 3 or even 4 layers. If an appliance fails, it has a failover ready to go, and the most that would be missed is minimal, lasting only seconds, if that. An alert would be emailed to the admin and the admin would react, BUT the failover would kick in automatically. That only 6 + Lerner lost vital emails is just laughable.. Actually sad. Obama, and Co (And yes now I am really starting to think the WH has its smelly palms all over this scandal) misunderstood the public technical knowledge. What they are suggesting happened is an outright lie!

The Lie of the Year, this will be, trust me. Two for two!


Tim-
 
Hicup said:
Uh huh... That's kind of the point. This is IT proof. Once set up, it is hands free, and the only thing an IT Admin would ever need to do is go plug it back in if someone unplugged it. ;)

Not to mention that most Federal entities I do business with (Heck even local ones) have redundancy to 2, 3 or even 4 layers. If an appliance fails, it has a failover ready to go, and the most that would be missed is minimal, lasting only seconds, if that. An alert would be emailed to the admin and the admin would react, BUT the failover would kick in automatically. That only 6 + Lerner lost vital emails is just laughable.. Actually sad. Obama, and Co (And yes now I am really starting to think the WH has its smelly palms all over this scandal) misunderstood the public technical knowledge. What they are suggesting happened is an outright lie!

The Lie of the Year, this will be, trust me. Two for two!


Tim-
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Everything you've said is only valid if the system was set up the way you think it should have been in the first place. All you're doing is telling me what is possible (and what I think everyone who knows anything agrees SHOULD be done), but since you have absolutely no evidence this is the way it IS done, all you're doing is wasting people's time.

You keep posting in an adversarial manner in response to me, but you don't seem to understand I've never taken a position one way or another. All I've ever said is that it IS possible, not that it DID happen. Please stop ranting and pay more attention to what is being said. Thank you.
 
Slyfox696 said:
Everything you've said is only valid if the system was set up the way you think it should have been in the first place. All you're doing is telling me what is possible (and what I think everyone who knows anything agrees SHOULD be done), but since you have absolutely no evidence this is the way it IS done, all you're doing is wasting people's time.

You keep posting in an adversarial manner in response to me, but you don't seem to understand I've never taken a position one way or another. All I've ever said is that it IS possible, not that it DID happen. Please stop ranting and pay more attention to what is being said. Thank you.
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Well sly, I for one sure hope that the IRS isn't relying on something akin to a comadore 64 in this day and age.
 
Hicup said:
Uh huh... That's kind of the point. This is IT proof. Once set up, it is hands free, and the only thing an IT Admin would ever need to do is go plug it back in if someone unplugged it. ;)

Not to mention that most Federal entities I do business with (Heck even local ones) have redundancy to 2, 3 or even 4 layers. If an appliance fails, it has a failover ready to go, and the most that would be missed is minimal, lasting only seconds, if that. An alert would be emailed to the admin and the admin would react, BUT the failover would kick in automatically. That only 6 + Lerner lost vital emails is just laughable.. Actually sad. Obama, and Co (And yes now I am really starting to think the WH has its smelly palms all over this scandal) misunderstood the public technical knowledge. What they are suggesting happened is an outright lie!

The Lie of the Year, this will be, trust me. Two for two!


Tim-
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If it turns out that Obama was involved in this, I believe this is WAY worse than Watergate + Coverup. What I can't believe is that the Republicans can't get any traction with this story. And yet on the other hand I can. From about ohhhhh, day 1 after the first inauguration, Republicans have been calling for Obama's impeachment on one trumped up charge or another. Is it possible this is a case of the little boy who cried wolf? The irony of that possibility is so juicy to me that I almost think it is worth letting the administration get away with it. Almost.

If they do get traction on an investigation for this, I will fully support it.
 
MaggieD said:
I don't believe it either. Maybe a tech-savvy someone will check in on this thread. But my common sense tells me that "every computer within the IRS" is backed up every hour. I say a crash that would have lost all these emails is a bold-faced lie.
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I believe it. Especially if they phrased it this way, "The Internal Revenue Service (IRS) claimed Friday that it cannot produce Lois Lerner’s emails to and from the White House and other administration departments due to a "supposed" computer crash... ;) " as he used the finger quotes sign as he said "supposed"

That wink would really be the selling point.
 
Anthony60 said:
IRS: So



Excuse me if I don't believe these people. Someone needs to go to jail, and we the people need to know what the hell is going on with the IRS and the White House.
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in order to lose that data from a crash,the hard drive must have been physically damaged beyond recognition.

there are two ways to recover data,one is through software,the other through forensics.

in software,it can be recovered so long as no new data has overwritten it,or been zerofilled.i for example use zero fill software on any computer i give away,the last thing id want is data recovery software to retrieve personal information.

through forensics,either a machine or through a microscope the data can be read.even after data has been zeros or replaced with other data,imprints are still on the disc from previous data,and to erase such evidence requires a large number of zerofills(such as a 35 pass)which still dont guarantee data cant be recovered.


if its considered unrecoverable,it has to have been damaged to the point a physical machine cant identify the new and old data imprints,or not important enough to use more intensive means of recovery.
 
Hicup said:
Uh huh... That's kind of the point. This is IT proof. Once set up, it is hands free, and the only thing an IT Admin would ever need to do is go plug it back in if someone unplugged it. ;)

Not to mention that most Federal entities I do business with (Heck even local ones) have redundancy to 2, 3 or even 4 layers. If an appliance fails, it has a failover ready to go, and the most that would be missed is minimal, lasting only seconds, if that. An alert would be emailed to the admin and the admin would react, BUT the failover would kick in automatically. That only 6 + Lerner lost vital emails is just laughable.. Actually sad. Obama, and Co (And yes now I am really starting to think the WH has its smelly palms all over this scandal) misunderstood the public technical knowledge. What they are suggesting happened is an outright lie!

The Lie of the Year, this will be, trust me. Two for two!


Tim-
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redundancy is standard among the government.when i was in active duty army,it was standard to have multiple backups of everything,to the extent almost everything had to be backed up on paper,this was incase of an emp or a mass computer virus,i doubt the us govt would function any different than the military.
 
j-mac said:
Well sly, I for one sure hope that the IRS isn't relying on something akin to a comadore 64 in this day and age.
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I would hope so too, but it wouldn't surprise me to find out differently.
 
Who doesn't think these "unretrievable" emails connect the IRS actions to the administration?

The most transparent administration ever, eh Obama? That's what you promised.
 
Erod said:
Who doesn't think these "unretrievable" emails connect the IRS actions to the administration?

The most transparent administration ever, eh Obama? That's what you promised.
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me. but i am willing to look at the connection if you are able to point it out
 
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beerftw said:
in order to lose that data from a crash,the hard drive must have been physically damaged beyond recognition.
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Or damaged to the point where getting the data off isn't worth the trouble. That'll get a hd sent to the graveyard.

Are we supposing that the IRS IT dept is in on the alleged conspiracy and that they purposely destroyed what they knew to be evidence of wrong-doing?

Or are we just supposing that Lerner damaged her hd herself so that IT would opt to swap it out for a new one?

Or are we supposing that the story about the crash is made from whole cloth?

Or what exactly?

Do you suppose that the conspiracists went through the trouble of creating a work ticket for Lerner's computer?
 
Simon W. Moon said:
Or damaged to the point where getting the data off isn't worth the trouble. That'll get a hd sent to the graveyard.

Are we supposing that the IRS IT dept is in on the alleged conspiracy and that they purposely destroyed what they knew to be evidence of wrong-doing?

Or are we just supposing that Lerner damaged her hd herself so that IT would opt to swap it out for a new one?

Or are we supposing that the story about the crash is made from whole cloth?

Or what exactly?

Do you suppose that the conspiracists went through the trouble of creating a work ticket for Lerner's computer?
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no one knows exactly what happened,by point was if it was from a crash,even though a computer couldnt digitally read it,their are machines that can read the imprints of overwritten data,which is well worth it.

now if for any reason it was highly damaged or zero filled to the extent of needing to use a microscope and scientists to manually record it,of course it wouldnt be worth it,such measures would only be used if it was deemed absolutely necessary to the interest of national security,as it would cost millions to retrieve data in such a way,and the data would have to be worth it to jutfy such heavy costs.

of course we are talking about a computer crash,even the most basic forensics can recover data from it unless it was from a computer virus with a high pass zero fill.
 
beerftw said:
no... ...fill.
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But what can be done is vastly different than what should be done on a day to day basis inside a large network.
W/o knowledge that there's extraordinary data, there's no reason to go to extraordinary measures. SOP, as noted by someone's link above, does not involve extraordinary measure like reading the disks with another machine, [nor does it even include things like replacing the hd's board with one from a similar model]. In general user's computers are treated as though they are fungible.
 
justabubba said:
me. but i am willing to look at the connection if you are able to point it out
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LOL, So let me see if I got your POV straight bubba....If this were you and I. I claim that you are hiding something, and want your email to prove it, you stall me for over two years, then when I am getting close to forcing you to turn over what I think would incriminate you, claim that the hard drive was destroyed and the email is lost....And you want me to believe ANYTHING you say? pfft....Yeah, right....:roll:
 
Since their office had this server crash, and they lost a bunch of emails,
I wounder how many applications for tax exempt status were lost at the same time,
or what other correspondence?
 
longview said:
Since their office had this server crash, and they lost a bunch of emails,
I wounder how many applications for tax exempt status were lost at the same time,
or what other correspondence?
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Zero, because it NEVER was a 'crash' in the first place....They either still have them now, and are lying, or someone purposely, and intentionally destroyed evidence...This is a cover up that makes Watergate look like child's play.
 
j-mac said:
Zero, because it NEVER was a 'crash' in the first place....They either still have them now, and are lying, or someone purposely, and intentionally destroyed evidence...This is a cover up that makes Watergate look like child's play.
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It shouldn't be too difficult to find the IT people who were employed, question them under oath and find out who told them to do what and when. If such a conspiracy occurred and it looks promising it did, names, dates, etc., should be easily found. Hell, since the NSA is recording every conversation why not go back and find these IT people and pull their convo's and text messages. The NSA probably has copies of the emails in question as well! :mrgreen:
 
j-mac said:
Zero, because it NEVER was a 'crash' in the first place....They either still have them now, and are lying, or someone purposely, and intentionally destroyed evidence...This is a cover up that makes Watergate look like child's play.
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Sorry, I was being sarcastic, about computer crashes being non discriminatory towards the data lost.
 
So "My dog ate my homework" is the best response our beloved IRS can come up with. Can anyone else see them sitting in a conference room laughing their assess off at us?
 
j-mac said:
LOL, So let me see if I got your POV straight bubba....If this were you and I. I claim that you are hiding something, and want your email to prove it, you stall me for over two years, then when I am getting close to forcing you to turn over what I think would incriminate you, claim that the hard drive was destroyed and the email is lost....And you want me to believe ANYTHING you say? pfft....Yeah, right....:roll:
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the post said there is a white house connection to this matter
i invited that poster to show the connection
notice you didn't either
 
Ockham said:
You know what's funny? That this lame "the dog ate my homework" type excuse is probably going to stick and be defended to the hilt. That's have ****ed up our country has become.
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I think this is a serious problem in this country. So let me ask you this. What would have to be done in order to push this story to the point that they would admit they had back ups? Or that there was no computer crash to begin with? Then I ask, would the American people see it through? My prediction is they wouldn't, simply because they have 9-5's and a family to take care of. And the people in Washington know this.
 
justabubba said:
the post said there is a white house connection to this matter
i invited that poster to show the connection
notice you didn't either
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We won't know that until all the facts are out without you trying to close the investigation prematurely. IF you are just dismissing ANY WH connection without knowing all the facts, then mocking the poster because he can't provide what has been actively covered up, and stonewalled is ridiculous to say the least.
 
sookster said:
I think this is a serious problem in this country. So let me ask you this. What would have to be done in order to push this story to the point that they would admit they had back ups? Or that there was no computer crash to begin with? Then I ask, would the American people see it through? My prediction is they wouldn't, simply because they have 9-5's and a family to take care of. And the people in Washington know this.
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It's not the responsibility of the average American who's busy working and raising their family to oversee Government entities.

Congressional Oversight committees are far more prepared and more importantly responsible for making sure Governmental agencies like the IRS operate within the confines of the Constitution.

But it appears we've gotten to the point where there is no true oversight anymore.

Where Government agencies can repeatedly act outside the law with total immunity.
 
sookster said:
I think this is a serious problem in this country. So let me ask you this. What would have to be done in order to push this story to the point that they would admit they had back ups? Or that there was no computer crash to begin with? Then I ask, would the American people see it through? My prediction is they wouldn't, simply because they have 9-5's and a family to take care of. And the people in Washington know this.
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First thing that should be done at this point, IF the Atty Gen. wasn't abusing his office to protect his buddy Obama in the first place is a Special Prosecutor should be appointed. But probably won't...As for the American people, they already think that not only is the country going in the wrong direction, but, the latest poll shows that they have lost confidence in this administration to be truthful with the American people. So, at this point yes, I think that a majority of American's want to see this administration stop lying to them.
 
To have the government oversee itself doesn't make sense. Especially when you are dealing with corruption, power, and politics.

Frankly, in order to have a just system, these kind of hearings should be overseen by the American people.

In theory, there is a trust between our representatives. However I think we all know that people in power at times vote away from the majority. Out of all the bills that have been passed in the history of this country, I'm sure there is a considerable amount of votes that goes against the people they are supposed to represent.

My point is in paper a representative republic makes sense based on the premise of trust. But when people are bred to self-maximize at no matter the cost, there is a lot of corruption.

Therefore, I do not think it is wise to have the government oversee itself. I guess it is better than nothing, but in my opinion it cannot be trusted.
 
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