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Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance [W:246, 565, *656*]

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Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

imagep said:
Thats based upon the 2008 withdrawal agreement. I believe that Bush was still president back then.
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The plan turned over by the Bush administration and even technically pursued by the Obama administration contained a residual presence for some time. The Obama administration failed to negotiate a simple SOFA, forcing a full withdrawal by default.

Regardless, the President in 2011 was Obama, not Bush. You can blame Bush for the way in which the war started all you like, but the way in which we withdrew is all Obama.


Just like in Afghanistan. Where we are about to do the Same Dumb Thing and probably get the Same Damn Results.

Thats what I read on the Fox News article.
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Oh. That's interesting.
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

cpwill said:
That's fascinating. I had no idea that in the real world George Bush was still President of the United States in 2011.


Seriously, the "blame Bush for Obama's Decisions" is the dumbest Blame Bush I've seen to date seriously argued.
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The Bush Administration made the withdrawal agreement before Obama was President. Are you saying Bush was an idiot for going along with it? Why do you think we should have stayed there when we were not welcome? Do you think that Iraq is 'ours" now or something?
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

iguanaman said:
The Bush Administration made the withdrawal agreement before Obama was President. Are you saying Bush was an idiot for going along with it? Why do you think we should have stayed there when we were not welcome? Do you think that Iraq is 'ours" now or something?
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I think it was tentative though, wasn't it?
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

iguanaman said:
The Bush Administration made the withdrawal agreement before Obama was President.
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And the plan for both Administrations included residual forces after the full combat units had withdrawn.

Why do you think we should have stayed there when we were not welcome?
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According to the people we had negotiating on the ground for us, most Iraqi leadership actually wanted them to stay, but found it impossible to come to a deal with the United States because the Administration refused to even decide what it wanted. They couldn't even get a number of how many people they wanted to leave out of the White House, so they had nothing to negotiate over because they had nothing to negotiate with.

The White House wanted Out Of Iraq, and so it let it die. Witness now the consequences of the notion that Hope is a Strategy.
 
Navy Pride said:
Ah but we did go in there blessed by the democrats get over it...Its ancient history. The problem now is your daddy pulled the troops out before the job was done....Get that through your head.....Now this radical group is on its way to Baghdad and another Embassy is endangering of falling making Benghazi look like a first graders birthday party and Obama (the clueless one) is doing nothing.
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Sorry, 60% of Dems in Congress told Dubya to jump off a bridge... They voted no on his war of choice...
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

cpwill said:
And the plan for both Administrations included residual forces after the full combat units had withdrawn.



According to the people we had negotiating on the ground for us, most Iraqi leadership actually wanted them to stay, but found it impossible to come to a deal with the United States because the Administration refused to even decide what it wanted. They couldn't even get a number of how many people they wanted to leave out of the White House, so they had nothing to negotiate over because they had nothing to negotiate with.

The White House wanted Out Of Iraq, and so it let it die. Witness now the consequences of the notion that Hope is a Strategy.
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Hope huh. That sounds exactly like Bush's strategy for Iraq only he didn't mind the casualties like Obama. You never answered my question about the possibility of us fighting side by side with Iran's Revolutionary Guard. How's that for strange bedfellows? What a twisted web we weave....
 
LowDown said:
Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance



Iraq is going down fast. The US should never have pulled troops out. We should have been resolved to be there for decades, like in Germany, Japan, and South Korea.
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Why on earth should the US be resolved (or feel forced to feel that way) about staying in Iraq for years upon years?


We don't need Iraq. We buy our oil off the global market like every other Western country. We have absolutely no reason to stay in Iraq or keep a single troop there. Invading a country doesn't mean you "owe it". That's an illogical and naive concept.


The factions in Iraq have to kill off one another and establish who's going to run the country for the next 40 years or so. Nothing we do is going to change that. We've already prolonged this inevitability long enough. We should go ahead and let them establish who's who and then deal with the new monster as we do with most countries in that region. The house of Al Saud is an absolute rapist beast but we deal with it. We aren't morality police. We should not be in Iraq or spend money bombing Iraq.
 
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Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

ChrisL said:
Obama's own advisers told him it was too soon to leave, but he ignored them.
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U.S.-Iraq Status of Forces Agreement, 11/17/08


Iraq and U.S. agree that all U.S. forces will withdraw "no later than December 31, 2011."


Bush signed SOFA, which "lays out a framework for the withdrawal of American forces in Iraq."
President Bush and Iraq Prime Minister Maliki Sign the Strategic Framework Agreement and Security Agreement

6/24/10

Mullen: "This strategy ... is still the right decision." During a June 24 Pentagon press conference, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs Adm. Mike Mullen agreed that "the military was deeply involved in the development of the president's strategy and signed on to the president's strategy" and commented, "And getting there using this strategy, with everything we understand right now, is still the right decision."

Gates: "[W]e are all on board for ... this gradual process of drawdown in July of 2011."

http://www.defense.gov/transcripts/transcript.aspx?transcriptid=4647


Petraeus: I agree "with the July 2011 date described by the president."
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

dad2three2001 said:
U.S.-Iraq Status of Forces Agreement, 11/17/08


Iraq and U.S. agree that all U.S. forces will withdraw "no later than December 31, 2011."


Bush signed SOFA, which "lays out a framework for the withdrawal of American forces in Iraq."
President Bush and Iraq Prime Minister Maliki Sign the Strategic Framework Agreement and Security Agreement

6/24/10

Mullen: "This strategy ... is still the right decision." During a June 24 Pentagon press conference, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs Adm. Mike Mullen agreed that "the military was deeply involved in the development of the president's strategy and signed on to the president's strategy" and commented, "And getting there using this strategy, with everything we understand right now, is still the right decision."

Gates: "[W]e are all on board for ... this gradual process of drawdown in July of 2011."

http://www.defense.gov/transcripts/transcript.aspx?transcriptid=4647


Petraeus: I agree "with the July 2011 date described by the president."
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What of the conflict between General Petraeus and President Obama? Remember that? "General Betray Us" I can't remember off the top of my head what that was all about.
 
imagep said:
Who are we going to declare war against, and why would we want to do that?

Did the ISIS attack us?
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Devil's advocate for a moment.
Ummmm, let's see...how do these things play out all the time?
Oh yeah, we declare war "on an idea" and go marching through, shock and awe, destroy tens of billions of dollars
of infrastructure, kill and maim hundreds of thousands of people, and ISIS takes off their uniforms and they blend into
the civilian population.
So we knock down doors, tear up families, accuse them all of working with the enemy, throw them into Abu Ghraib
and declare victory.

Meanwhile, in the next town the cycle repeats itself, and so on and so forth until our boys are just shooting anything that moves.
Yeah, that's some victory you got there bubba.

And the enemy managed to snooker us while spending 1% what we spent.
And meanwhile our own kids can't have a nurse in the school building because: "freedom, jeebus and tax cuts".
school lunches go bye bye, bridges collapse and towns have to let their police force go.

But we'll spend another seven billion rebuilding the sewer system that we just finished rebuilding, before we shock and awed it again.

And Halliburton pockets another 39 billion dollars.
And our boys come home AGAIN, to an overcrowded VA, AGAIN, and we get another round of finger pointing and accusations, AGAIN.

And we STILL don't get the oil. We didn't get it last time, and that was under a Republican OIL president, or was he a "warp resident?"
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
They will welcome us as liberators, the war will be over in four months and we can use the Iraqi oil to pay the cost of the war.
Hmmmm, I remember when Obama and his administration talked like that....NOT.
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You have a poor memory..
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

cpwill said:
Just like in Afghanistan. Where we are about to do the Same Dumb Thing and probably get the Same Damn Results.
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And the other nations that successfully prosecuted a war with Afghanistan are......:doh
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

Checkerboard Strangler said:
Allowed it to happen? They were too disgusted to do much else and the military had turned paid mercenary at that point as well.
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Due to a total economic meltdown, the discipline and loyalty of Roman troops collapsed. Hence the need for mercinaries. Soldiers had been mistreated in one respect by losing their land. Through hook and crook the elite were able to obtain the land on the cheap as their currency depreciated 200%. The poor became destitute and the rich became poor. The urban areas where it was most populated felt the sting of the economic collapse first. A side note -The Roman empire was the first to implement welfare. That quickly ceased when it ran out of funds. Businesses failed and jobs were not to be found. People left the urban areas fleeing to the rural areas seeking means to survive. What amounted to corporate farms had been erected by the elite who had enough to secure the land purchases and the citizens of Rome who were lucky enough to find work, found jobs there but also learned what it meant to be a serf in the process.
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

Unitedwestand13 said:
Then blame the Iraqis for imposing a demand that our troops would not be granted immunity if we stayed.
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We won the war and we should have made the demands "and" we should have left some troops there..
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

Juanita said:
We won the war and we should have made the demands "and" we should have left some troops there..
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That's a good point. To the victors go the spoils. To rile people up, I've said that we should have just taken the oil too. :mrgreen:
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

ChrisL said:
What of the conflict between General Petraeus and President Obama? Remember that? "General Betray Us" I can't remember off the top of my head what that was all about.
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Nothing I remember, other than the Generals affair. The "General Betray Us" was Mveon's ad for him for 'cooking the books', for Bush
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

Juanita said:
We won the war and we should have made the demands "and" we should have left some troops there..
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So NOW you just want to be occupiers? How's that working out for Israel?

BTW, Was no war, just an invasion on false premises!
 
Juanita said:
No, my dear, it was fact. The Obama Administration did not say that, The Bush Administration did..
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He was trying to be funny though, or sarcastic anyways.
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

Juanita said:
We won the war and we should have made the demands "and" we should have left some troops there..
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We won nothing but freedom for the Iraqi's to make their own choices. They choose poorly. We also got the person that put a hit out on Bush's daddy. That was all Bush wanted anyway. To prove he could cause the deaths of more Americans than Bin Laden too.
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

iguanaman said:
We won nothing but freedom for the Iraqi's to make their own choices. They choose poorly. We also got the person that put a hit out on Bush's daddy. That was all Bush wanted anyway. To prove he could cause the deaths of more Americans than Bin Laden too.
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Good Lord! This is what I can't stand about the partisans. The mouth gaping hyperbole that you all spew. :roll: And people WONDER why we are so divided as a country. Yikes, that's just rotten to the core I must say.
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

dad2three2001 said:
So NOW you just want to be occupiers? How's that working out for Israel?

BTW, Was no war, just an invasion on false premises!
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Yes, of course it was an invasion which does not change what I said....
 
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