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Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance [W:246, 565, *656*]

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Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

AJiveMan said:
Well, he did take us into the place and destabilized it.
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Yeah! Thats right! Those dead troops are great political fodder.
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

apdst said:
Yeah! Thats right! Those dead troops are great political fodder.
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I wouldn't compare dead bodies as political fodder. Sad to see that someone could go that low though.
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

dad2three2001 said:
HOW do you expect Iraq policy to EVER work? Seriously? Bad from the get go. He is doing the best to extract US from Dubya's HUGE mistake...
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I just wonder why anyone thinks that the POTUS should have an Iraq policy, or a France policy, or a Canada policy.

The president of the US is not the president of the world. I would think that just dealing with issues that directly effect the US would be ample enough responsibility without trying to govern the entire world.
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

Simon W. Moon said:
Just basing my posts on what we found after rummaging around in Iraq for a few years.
Presumably, our Intelligence Community was aware of the WaTime article you mentioned.

Re-posting a re-posted post
http://www.debatepolitics.com/gener...ot-vote-assad-and-putin-2.html#post1062268490

What the best info currently available re the WMD to Syria theory says.

Addendums to the Comprehensive Report of the Special Advisor to the DCI on Iraq’s WMD (pdf) page1 (page 4 of the pdf)
ISG formed a working group to investigate the possibility of the evacuation of WMD-related material from Iraq prior to the 2003 war. This group spent several months examining documents, interviewing former Iraqi officials , examining previous intelligence reports, and conducting some site investigations. The declining security situation limited and finally halted this investigation. The results remain inconclusive, but further investigation may be undertaken when circumstances on the ground improve.
The investigation centered on the possibility that WMD materials were moved to Syria. As is obvious from other sections of the Comprehensive Report, Syria was involved in transactions and shipments of military and other material to Iraq in contravention of the UN sanctions. This indicated a flexibility with respect to international law and a strong willingness to work with Iraq—at least when there was considerable profit for those involved. Whether Syria received military items from Iraq for safekeeping or other reasons has yet to be determined. There was evidence of a discussion of possible WMD collaboration initiated by a Syrian security officer, and ISG received information about movement of material out of Iraq, including the possibility that WMD was involved. In the judgment of the working group, these reports were sufficiently credible to merit further investigation.
ISG was unable to complete its investigation and is unable to rule out the possibility that WMD was evacuated to Syria before the war. It should be noted that no information from debriefing of Iraqis in custody supports this possibility. ISG found no senior policy, program, or intelligence officials who admitted any direct knowledge of such movement of WMD. Indeed, they uniformly denied any knowledge of residual WMD that could have been secreted to Syria.
Nevertheless, given the insular and compartmented nature of the Regime, ISG analysts believed there was enough evidence to merit further investigation.
It is worth noting that even if ISG had been able to fully examine all the leads it possessed, it is unlikely that conclusive information would have been found.
At best, barring discovery of original documentary evidence of the transfer, reports or sources may have been substantiated or negated, but firm conclusions on actual WMD movements may not be possible.
Based on the evidence available at present, ISG judged that it was unlikely that an official transfer of WMD material from Iraq to Syria took place. However, ISG was unable to rule out unofficial movement of limited WMD-related materials.
Note that "WMD-related materials" ≠ WMDs
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Interesting that they claim there was no insider information of such transfers, because there actually was. The question is, how trustworthy is this person? We know he wanted to sell a book, but it seems like there is quite a GOOD possibility, IMO, that Iraq moved their weapons around.

After he retired Sada was living a quiet life in Iraq, but when after 2003 Invasion of Iraq by the United States armed forces, Sada sided with the US government in their invasion of Iraq and aided in the fight against Saddam Hussein. During the invasion of Iraq, Sada served as spokesman for the interim leader Iyad Allawi, and he was appointed as National Security Advisor.

In August 2004 Sada announced that he would be signing a bill to introduce the death penalty in Iraq. The bill introduces the death penalty for anyone who is "threatening national security". (on al-Jazeera)

On January 24, 2006, he announced the publication of a book he had written entitled Saddam's Secrets: How an Iraqi General Defied And Survived Saddam Hussein, with the tagline "An insider exposes plans to destroy Israel, hide WMD's and control the Arab world."[1] Sada, the former Air Vice-Marshal under Hussein, appeared the following day on Fox News' Hannity & Colmes, where he discussed his book and reported that other pilots told him that Hussein had ordered them to fly portions of the WMD stockpiles to Damascus in Syria just prior to the 2003 Invasion of Iraq. After the release of his book, Sada was interviewed by Fox News, and he stated:

"Well, I want to make it clear, very clear to everybody in the world that we had the weapon of mass destruction in Iraq, and the regime used them against our Iraqi people...I know it because I have got the captains of the Iraqi airway that were my friends, and they told me these weapons of mass destruction had been moved to Syria. Iraq had some projects for nuclear weapons but it was destroyed in 1981".

When asked during his interview with Fox News if there was any chance that there were nuclear weapons or on their way to nuclear weapons when USA invaded, he said "Not in Iraq". Sada made a guest appearance on The Daily Show on March 21, 2006 to promote Saddam's Secrets. His (Sada's) claims, though, tend to contradict the findings of the Duelfer Report, which "judged that it was unlikely that an official transfer of WMD material from Iraq to Syria took place," though analysts were unable to rule out the possibility.
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Georges Sada - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
imagep said:
I wouldn't want to take the risk that it would be my side that get's wiped out. What would the point of that be?
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Coin the phrase "**** or get off the pot".

imagep said:
And even if we won, then would we be any better off? Would humanity be any better off after enduring WW3?
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Yes.
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

ChrisL said:
Didn't you read the article I posted? :roll: Just going to ignore valid information so that you keep Obama slurping?

Read more: Inside the Ring: Syria, Iraq and weapons of mass destruction - Washington Times
Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter
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John A. Shaw - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Although persistently repeated in neoconservative blogs regarding Syrian chemical weapons throughout 2012, Shaw's claims were dismissed for lack of evidence in 2005. At that time, the Iraq Survey Group formed a special working group to investigate and consider these and other claims of Iraqi WMDs. Charles Duelfer, head of inspectorate at time of publication, summarized the group's conclusion in the Duelfer Report: "Based on the evidence available at present, ISG judged that it was unlikely that an official transfer of WMD material from Iraq to Syria took place."

...

Shaw was suspected of attempting to steer contracts in Iraq to friends and business associates. He made several unauthorized trips to Iraq, during which he illegally gained access to a U.S. facility. He then urged officials to fix the problems he had 'uncovered' by directing multimillion dollar contracts to companies of friends and associates using a rigged or no-bid process. The companies were Nana Pacific and SSA Marine. Soon after Shaw's illegal entry into the port facility, Nana Pacific was granted a contract worth up to $70 million to reconstruct the facility. Nana subcontracted $3.5 million in dredging work to SSA Marine.
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Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

Simon W. Moon said:
About Shaw


The guy pimping the WMD to Syria story says that the United States' Defense Intelligence Agency thinks the story is B.S.


About Jack Shaw, Another Presenter at the Summit
Mr. Shaw said he acquired his intel about Iraq's WMD going to Syria from a "good friend" of Dick Cheney's and that this info was derided by the DIA as "Israeli disinformation." After the Shaw launched the story, the Fox news reported "it isn't clear how this person has the authority or the knowledge to speak on such a matter."

In the recent past, it seemed that Jack Shaw did some illegal and questionable things. But, then a DoD press release seemed to have cleared him. Subsequently, the exonerating press release had to be pulled because "information has become available that indicates it may not have been accurate at the time it was issued. The matter is under review to determine the facts and circumstances involving the information contained in the original release."
AFAICT, the DoD page revoking the exoneration was last updated 2005-08-25.

Coincidentally, the previously cited article about what prompted the FBI to investigate the actions of Mr. Shaw mentioned the port of Umm al Qasr. At the Summit, Mr. Shaw also mentioned port of Umm al Qasr. He said there were floodable storage areas in Qasr that had held WMD. He also said that in Umm al Qasr, the Soviets loaded Iraqi WMD onto ships so as to sink the weapons and possibly other untold evidence in the depths of the Indian Ocean.
19 Feb 2006 by Simon W. Moon


http://irrationallyinformed.com/aud...aelidisinfo.wav[about 53 mb]

Starting about 45 sec in he begins to talk about shopping the WMD to Syria story to the DIA. He says the DIA told him that the WMD to Syria thing is "Israeli disinformation."[around the 60 second mark] He then says that there was an effort to discredit him and the people associated with the story even though one of them was one of "the Vice Presidents very best friends." [around the two minute mark]
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Interesting. I see that there are several witnesses (questionable ones, but witnesses nonetheless), and there are also satellite photos of convoys moving SOMETHING in Iraq to Syria and Lebanon. Yet, the evidence is inconclusive.

FLASHBACK: Where did Saddam's WMD go? To Syria ... - World Tribune | World Tribune

Now, forward to 2014 and they have found EXTRA chemical weapons in Syria, Russia says more than what they had inventoried, and those are Russian weapons.

I don't know what happened or if there were actually weapons in Iraq, but it certainly isn't out of the question, nor is it unbelievable that they would have been moving things around to avoid the inspections.
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

Amadeus said:
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This certainly doesn't mean he was lying about WMD in Iraq. I'm not saying that I know one way or other, but when taking ALL of the evidence together, it is pretty hard to say that there wasn't some shady activity going on in Iraq in 2003, before the war. I think that anyone who just rules it out, while ignoring the evidence otherwise is kind of ignorant.
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

Here is a VERY interesting article that I urge you all to read. It gives points from both perspectives, that there were or were not WMD in Iraq. It certainly seems plausible to me.

Did Syria Receive Its Chemical Weapons from Saddam? - The Wire
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

Amadeus said:
One of these days, they'll find those WMDs. Then it will all have been worth it.
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WMDs or not, it gave us a chance to put a base of operations right smack dab in the center of the Middle East, a la Germany after WW2. Now, they'll soon be amassed across a huge swath and be much more difficult to keep in check.
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

ChrisL said:
Here is a VERY interesting article that I urge you all to read. It gives points from both perspectives, that there were or were not WMD in Iraq. It certainly seems plausible to me.

Did Syria Receive Its Chemical Weapons from Saddam? - The Wire
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Hussein denied repeated assertions by his interrogator of a current weapons of mass destruction capability in Iraq,[4] yet had resisted U.N. weapons inspections because he "was more concerned about Iran discovering Iraq’s weaknesses and vulnerabilities than the repercussions of the United States for his refusal to allow U.N. inspectors back into Iraq," according to the reports.[5]
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Interrogation of Saddam Hussein - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

Anyways, there is a LOT of circumstantial evidence that would lead one to believe that Saddam Hussein most definitely had WMD, IMO. And with the newest information about extra weapons reported in Syria's stockpile of chemical/WMD, what is one to think about that?
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

Simon W. Moon said:
The results remain inconclusive,
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That flies in the face of all the anti-USA Dumbocrats and various other lefty miscreants who said the opposite.*finger*
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

APACHERAT said:
It seems President Obama has taken your advice, well at least until the weekend is over.

By then the Al Qaeda black flag could be flying over Baghdad.

I don't know anyone calling for boots on the ground but this incompetent administration had a few chances this past week catching ISIS jihadist soldiers in the open on the highway and didn't act when they had a chance to turn the highway into the "Highway of Death for Al Qaeda."
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Part of the problem with the war on terror: You guys don't even know who you're fighting. ISIS is not al Qaeda.

But seriously at some point, don't you wonder how many American lives is too many for a place that either can't or won't overcome their sectarian differences? Propping up this government only strengthens Iran's influence, and yet we're seeing that the other guys aren't so great either. So we should keep sending Americans to die to help Iran, is basically what you're saying.

Ronald Reagan is turning over in his grave.
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

ocean515 said:
Anything else, or is this just the trapped by facts response?
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What 'facts'? Oh right, 5 years BEFORE Bush's CHOICE to invade Iraq on false premisses!
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance [W:246]

rocket88 said:
It did start many years later, but Bush said that taking out Saddam would lead to other nations in the region casting off their dictators. Except that when it started happening, you guys on the right were too busy puffing up your chests about "Obama bad" to take credit for your guy being right in the long run.
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Obama's outlook on the Arab spring and his support of it until he withdrew support of it that is, was doomed. Biden saying one of Obama greatest successes was Iraq was another failure. Obama's bad at most everything as a President, I do agree with him that we should not get involved again with Iraq now.

rocket88 said:
That's how f'ed up things are now. Here's a liberal giving Bush more credit than a conservative.
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Bush wasn't right in the long run. He was wrong. These idiots in the ME aren't worth the blood it takes. The only way it would have worked is with the US occupying the country. We need to let these idiots kill each other and hopefully they will be at it a very long time and keep themselves busy without looking at the US. As long as it stays within the ME and can be contained, I say let them fight it out to the bitter end. More power to 'em.
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

Muhammed said:
That flies in the face of all the anti-USA Dumbocrats and various other lefty miscreants who said the opposite.*finger*
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Yes, because WE didn't find them, they never ever existed, even though there was also evidence of strange chemical compounds found in soil where some "factories" had been bombed. There was also other evidence that there was chemical weapon stock piles at one time in Iraq anyway.

I just can't understand how anyone could absolutely dismiss the idea. It seems plausible to me. Personally, with some of the evidence I've seen, I don't blame the president and congress for voting to attack. It was right after 9/11, and there IS some convincing evidence. There was another "secret agent" who was character assassinated who had also testified to the existence of WMD, so given all of this information, and the newest information, I really don't know what to believe.
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

ChrisL said:
Anyways, there is a LOT of circumstantial evidence that would lead one to believe that Saddam Hussein most definitely had WMD, IMO. And with the newest information about extra weapons reported in Syria's stockpile of chemical/WMD, what is one to think about that?
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Whether or not Hussein had WMD, the best judgment of the US intel community was that Iraq was not going to attack us directly nor by proxy.
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

ChrisL said:
Interesting that they claim there was no insider information of such transfers...
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Where's that claim made?
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

Simon W. Moon said:
Whether or not Hussein had WMD, the best judgment of the US intel community was that Iraq was not going to attack us directly nor by proxy.
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Was it US that they were worried about? What about Israel, or for them to use them just make the region unstable. Let's not also forget, that we had TOLD him that if he did not cooperate with the UN inspectors, we were coming over there, and that's what we did.

Certainly, I would feel much better about the whole fiasco if there was some evidence that there had been chemical weapons over there, even if he wasn't planning on using them.

Another point, our intelligence SUCKS. That is why 9/11 happened.
 
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