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Thread: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance [W:246, 565, *656*]

  1. #951
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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

    Quote Originally Posted by Juanita View Post
    We won the war and we should have made the demands "and" we should have left some troops there..
    That, with all due respect, is rather unrealistic. We can declare victory and claim that we "won the war" till the cows come home.
    We can make the demands till we're green in the face but ultimately, if they decide that US troops will be dragged into Iraqi courts, then
    that's what's going to happen, UNLESS we want to RESTART the war again, in which case, WE HAVEN'T really won.

    This isn't 1793, they aren't King George's Royal Army, and no one is lining up in some bucolic green meadow fighting "a gentleman's war".
    Maliki said what he said. He said that he refused to guarantee their immunity if they remained.
    Our only option after something like that is to start the war all over again, right from the beginning and, someone please tell me again why
    we're over there fighting?

    First it was to get Saddam, then it was to bring them democracy, then it was to stabilize the region, then it really WAS (by Bush's own admission) to
    secure an agreement for the oil. We didn't get any of that. I say that because I really can't term what they have now as "democracy" quite yet.
    Sure, it's something of a representative government, and maybe as close to democracy as we're going to see outside of Turkey but it's not democracy.

    So what did we win?
    Nothing.
    What did we lose?
    Plenty.
    If I didn't respond to your diatribe, it's possible you may have
    engaged in revisionism or broad sweeping generalizations.
    I don't have time for either, and you're probably on my IGNORE list.

  2. #952
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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

    Quote Originally Posted by Checkerboard Strangler View Post
    That, with all due respect, is rather unrealistic. We can declare victory and claim that we "won the war" till the cows come home.
    We can make the demands till we're green in the face but ultimately, if they decide that US troops will be dragged into Iraqi courts, then
    that's what's going to happen, UNLESS we want to RESTART the war again, in which case, WE HAVEN'T really won.

    This isn't 1793, they aren't King George's Royal Army, and no one is lining up in some bucolic green meadow fighting "a gentleman's war".
    Maliki said what he said. He said that he refused to guarantee their immunity if they remained.
    Our only option after something like that is to start the war all over again, right from the beginning and, someone please tell me again why
    we're over there fighting?

    First it was to get Saddam, then it was to bring them democracy, then it was to stabilize the region, then it really WAS (by Bush's own admission) to
    secure an agreement for the oil. We didn't get any of that. I say that because I really can't term what they have now as "democracy" quite yet.
    Sure, it's something of a representative government, and maybe as close to democracy as we're going to see outside of Turkey but it's not democracy.

    So what did we win?
    Nothing.
    What did we lose?
    Plenty.
    Not if we just took over the entire country. We could control the government, the oil. We'll just call them America Junior.

  3. #953
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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Not if we just took over the entire country. We could control the government, the oil. We'll just call them America Junior.
    East America

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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Good Lord! This is what I can't stand about the partisans. The mouth gaping hyperbole that you all spew. And people WONDER why we are so divided as a country. Yikes, that's just rotten to the core I must say.
    It's called being a realist. Invading Iraq was a HUGE mistake and someday you will know that too.

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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Because we're not there.
    Yeah, you gotta drive them with a stick, just like goats.

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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    This guy has it exactly right.

    Iraq veteran: This is not what my friends fought and died for - The Washington Post

    We are reaping the instability and increased threat to U.S. interests that we have sown through the failure of our endgame in Iraq and our indecisiveness in Syria. There is a clear lesson here for those contemplating a complete withdrawal of U.S. troops from Afghanistan. Having given al-Qaeda a new lease on life in the Middle East, will we provide another base where it began, in Afghanistan and Pakistan?


    This is not the end state my friends fought for and died for.
    I saw an interview on last night's evening news, some woman who lost her hubby over there, she was very dismayed - disappointed.

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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    It's called being a realist. Invading Iraq was a HUGE mistake and someday you will know that too.
    ChrisL will go to her grave thinking that the Iraq invasion was justified.

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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

    I have to agree..... trying to introduce democracy to an insane asylum was not a good idea. I mean honestly, the fact that they think strapping a bomb to their kids is a good idea should of told us something.


    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    False analysis. Problem is the Iraqis don't use the democratic form of governance, a problem with Western Culture is it thinks it's form of governance is superior and only a few bad men would refuse to use it. many regions of the world have a highly developed tribal system that for good or ill pushes leaders up... not unlike our party system that has a city councilman eventually a US Senator.

    It is more bogus thought to claim anyone is 'conditioned' to dictatorship AND declare GAWD given rights live in all people's breasts. (BushII)

    What was wrong is we scrapped the existing system and tried to force our 'western' system on the Iraqis. They had a system that needed cleaning not scrapping. But just like throwing all ba'athists out of any and every job in Iraq BushII seemed intent on being deaf to everyone but his inner council- none of which gave a second's thought to anything but Neo-Con think tank position papers.

    Comparing the USofA and it's melting pot to tribal Iraq is yet another false comparison. We don't have 2000 years of history. We don't have large enclaves of different religious and tribal areas cobbled together by an outside power. (that said we do have enclaves of blacks some CONs point out as almost a separate land, a LIBstan of sorts, not to mention enclaves of white supremacists in the Rockies, in separation by gated community. We divide our nation into blue and red with some purple (do you listen to some of the overheated rhetoric throw around in here?)

    The difference is our tribal power structure (and try to be a GOP liberal these days ) doesn't have thousands of years of bitter fighting to create the divide Iraq has, though we seem heading that way...

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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
    ChrisL will go to her grave thinking that the Iraq invasion was justified.
    Like 70 something % of Americans polled said no to going into Iraq again. That's about 20 to 30 % chicken hawks who want the USA to go, maybe they'd like to volunteer?

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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

    Quote Originally Posted by DrPepper View Post
    I have to agree..... trying to introduce democracy to an insane asylum was not a good idea. I mean honestly, the fact that they think strapping a bomb to their kids is a good idea should of told us something.
    You got that right. People all over the world in civilized countries are competing in sports, putting things together like bridges, roads, cars, and inventing things, cooking, boating, leisure activities, and all the insane bastards there in those third world goat herding countries do is plan on how to kill more people, if that isn't insane, I don't know what is.

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