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Thread: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance [W:246, 565, *656*]

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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    How did the US prevent Japan from completely conquering Korea and China? We sanctioned them by stopping the shipment of oil to them which caused so much trouble, they attacked us. How did the US and its allies defeat Germany? By sanctioning them and stopping the shipment of oil. I have read several books written from the German side of that war and there was always a shortage of oil because they were cut off from the world supply. That is why they were so interested in invading Africa which is rich in resources. Whoever controls the oil, wins the war. How did the US defeat the USSR? Sanctions.. We starved them to death. It became more and more expensive for them to keep up with the military expansion of the US.

    And why were so many of these wars won by the US. Because we supported dictators in the ME. If we did not support them, Japan, Germany or the USSR would have been happy to support them.
    it is a power battle,as you see.
    "Sovereignty is not given, it is taken." ATATÜRK

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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

    Quote Originally Posted by Medusa View Post
    it is a power battle,as you see.
    Yes, that is what Geopolitics is.
    - There was never a good war, or a bad peace.
    - Idealistically, everything should work as you planed it to. Realistically, it depends on how idealistic you are as to the measure of success.
    - Better to be a pessimist before, and an optimist afterwords.

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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    That's not true at all. The Iraqi elections are proof of that. People in Iraq WANT the freedom to determine the direction of their country. There are simply to many outside influences that continue to prevent that from being a reality. Why do Iraqi's hate the US so much? It's not because they don't want our flavor of freedom. It's not that they don't have many of the same values as we do. You know what it is? It is because they know we bring false hope. We come to their country, blow a bunch of stuff up, loose our resolve and then leave them with a blown up country and extremists. They don't want our help because they know it is no help at all.
    The Iraqi elections were not the 'will of the people' but a corrupt and very flawed exercise in what dictators are accused of doing. The Iraqis voted for the same gang leaders that were directing the kidnappings, bombings and murders for pay. Iraqis don't want our flavor of 'freedom', we in the West are so arrogant we think everyone wants what we have, and only a few 'dead-enders' resist for insane reasons.

    What false hope? The Iraqis are not children, they don't lack for weapons or ammo. Our Revolution was not fought for us. Our Revolution was not safeguarded after the British left by the French. Fact is the Iraqis are not Iraqis, they are Kurds, Sunni and Shias thrown together by colonial powers, then held that way by rather ruthless dictators, not unlike Yugoslavia and Tito....

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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    Yes, that is what Geopolitics is.

    what you dont see is that l dont approve such international tricks
    "Sovereignty is not given, it is taken." ATATÜRK

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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    IF is the biggest word in the English language. Until we bribed the crap out of the Sunnis 200,000 troops couldn't keep a few 'dead-enders' from pushing Iraq to the brink of Civil War, what modest advisory and reaction force were you thinking of?

    What leverage are you referring to? The Kurds are separate, the Sunnis not participating, and the Shia aided by the Iranians (BushII could never stop Iran from interfering) engaged in not so petty corruption and power stacking. Seems a mighty small lever we have.

    Now the Iraqi government didn't want us to stay, didn't want US Forces immune from Iraqi law. Just how do you suggest we stay? Force the Iraqi government to roll over for us? Do you think that government would stand the powerful domestic outrage sure to rise up? You think the modest advisory and reaction force can counter the renewed violence against the government and 'occupiers'???

    Nothing would have been avoided, merely delayed with the added bonus of a kick in the prestige nads of our modest advisory and reaction force being run out of town.... shades of the last chopper out of Saigon...
    I disagree completely. But having just taken a direct lightning hit on my house, I'm closing down.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

    Quote Originally Posted by Maenad View Post
    Yes, Iraq is falling. And we were there 10 years because..................?
    Is ok that it falls because you didn't agree to go in?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    The Iraqi elections were not the 'will of the people' but a corrupt and very flawed exercise in what dictators are accused of doing. The Iraqis voted for the same gang leaders that were directing the kidnappings, bombings and murders for pay. Iraqis don't want our flavor of 'freedom', we in the West are so arrogant we think everyone wants what we have, and only a few 'dead-enders' resist for insane reasons.
    Not entirely true. While the government in Iraq is indeed corrupt, it does not need to stay that way. If there was a reliable system where voters could vote out the corrupt like they do here in the US for the most part, this would eventually solve itself. The problem is the corrupt that get into office are hard to get out of office because there is little the Iraqi people can do to get them out of office once the US leaves. They have been conditioned to give in to the will of their dictators. It will take an outside power to come in and change that Or perhaps, like during the invasion of Kuwait, an outside power that invades them after their government goes to far. That is what the voters went in to vote for. There was a larger voter turnout in Iraq then there was in the US during our last election. And we don't have the threat of suicide bombers and terrorists mowing down people at polling stations. So your completely wrong when you say they don't want something that resembles the same freedom the US has.

    What false hope? The Iraqis are not children, they don't lack for weapons or ammo. Our Revolution was not fought for us. Our Revolution was not safeguarded after the British left by the French. Fact is the Iraqis are not Iraqis, they are Kurds, Sunni and Shias thrown together by colonial powers, then held that way by rather ruthless dictators, not unlike Yugoslavia and Tito....
    The US has Sunni, Shia, Kurds, black, white, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Russian, German...ect ect ect... But you don't see us with the problems Iraq has. The reason Iraq has the problems it has is because one group wants to rule the other two groups. A democratic system that allows all to be represented is what solves that problem. Dividing Iraq up wont solve those problems either. All it will do is create 3 warring countries.
    - There was never a good war, or a bad peace.
    - Idealistically, everything should work as you planed it to. Realistically, it depends on how idealistic you are as to the measure of success.
    - Better to be a pessimist before, and an optimist afterwords.

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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    I disagree completely. But having just taken a direct lightning hit on my house, I'm closing down.
    Hope you survive the strike, I understand you not seeing it my way, how ever I hope you see I don't know how we stay in a country who didn't want us to remain, didn't roll over for an eventual 200,000 troop occupation force, but would somehow be impressed by a modest advisory and reaction force...

    There never was a victory, but there were thousands of Americans killed AFTER the fall of Saddam's government, Billions spent on bribing Sunnis and lull BushII tried to pass off as a victory.

    But we don't need anymore victories like that....

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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

    Quote Originally Posted by Medusa View Post
    what you dont see is that l dont approve such international tricks
    Well, we can't stop playing the game until everyone stops playing the game. And I think the only way you will ever see that happen is if we dissolve all governments and merge into one large world government where there are no boarders. Until that happens, every country has its own agenda.
    - There was never a good war, or a bad peace.
    - Idealistically, everything should work as you planed it to. Realistically, it depends on how idealistic you are as to the measure of success.
    - Better to be a pessimist before, and an optimist afterwords.

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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    Well, we can't stop playing the game until everyone stops playing the game. And I think the only way you will ever see that happen is if we dissolve all governments and merge into one large world government where there are no boarders. Until that happens, every country has its own agenda.
    are you a secret communist ?
    "Sovereignty is not given, it is taken." ATATÜRK

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