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Thread: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance [W:246, 565, *656*]

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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

    Quote Originally Posted by dad2three2001 View Post
    lol, You mean according to right wingers rewriting history? Like the GOP great depression being prolonged by FDR or Reagan was a 'great' Prez?
    FDR was a great POTUS, but WW2 ended the Depression. RWR was the second greatest POTUS of the 20th century, after FDR.
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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    And now you see why he wanted us to stay.
    Maliki was not the real leader of Iraq, he was a puppet. The real power belonged to Muqtada al-Sadr.


    Moqtada al-Sadr orders halt to attacks on US troops stationed in Iraq | World news | The Guardian

    Sadr is the real reason Maliki won his first election, because Sadr is the top Shia cleric in the country
    "If you can't stand the way this place is, Take yourself to higher places!"
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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Quite simply, BHO was given all the tools for an effective endgame, and squandered the opportunity.
    Ummm no, the American people were done with Iraq and the huge waste of American lives and treasure. BushII had already squandered any effective endgame by having ZERO realistic approach to 'after the fall'. He had already declared we were leaving Iraq before he left office.

    BushII never got the three biggest factions to form a real central government- do we see the Kurds flooding out of their semi-autonomous region to repel the terrorists??? They seem to be saying let the Arabs kill each other- even though they know the terrorists are Sunnis who backed Saddam and his genocidal attacks on Kurds.

    The Iraqis didn't want us to stay so Obama would have to force any remaining combat units on the 'elected' government- not what democracies do.

    Bottom line, the Iraqis had plenty of time to build a military capable of defeating 800 terrorists in pick-ups...

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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Ummm no, the American people were done with Iraq and the huge waste of American lives and treasure. BushII had already squandered any effective endgame by having ZERO realistic approach to 'after the fall'. He had already declared we were leaving Iraq before he left office.

    BushII never got the three biggest factions to form a real central government- do we see the Kurds flooding out of their semi-autonomous region to repel the terrorists??? They seem to be saying let the Arabs kill each other- even though they know the terrorists are Sunnis who backed Saddam and his genocidal attacks on Kurds.

    The Iraqis didn't want us to stay so Obama would have to force any remaining combat units on the 'elected' government- not what democracies do.

    Bottom line, the Iraqis had plenty of time to build a military capable of defeating 800 terrorists in pick-ups...
    Obama didn't want to stay because he needed a political narrative. A " Success "...

    His decision to bale on Iraq was specifically based on how it would affect him politically.

    How long have we had bases in Japan, Germany, and Korea ??

    He's absolutely to blame for this.
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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    But it is what happened prior that allowed those living in urban areas to experience an economic collapse that led to them leaving for work in rural areas on farms that had been bought on the cheap by the wealthy and introduced these people to the world of serfdom. The people allowed it to happen because they became complacent. They became an empire no longer able to defend their borders because they allowed their military to decline. Their currency collapsed. Their trade with the world had diminished. You can blame the leaders if you like but it was the people that allowed them to get away with it till it was to late change course.
    Allowed it to happen? They were too disgusted to do much else and the military had turned paid mercenary at that point as well.
    If I didn't respond to your diatribe, it's possible you may have
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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    Maliki was not the real leader of Iraq, he was a puppet. The real power belonged to Muqtada al-Sadr.


    Moqtada al-Sadr orders halt to attacks on US troops stationed in Iraq | World news | The Guardian

    Sadr is the real reason Maliki won his first election, because Sadr is the top Shia cleric in the country
    That only goes so far. Outreach to the Sunnis was the key, and that's why Maliki needed us. GWB won a victory. BHO has thrown it away.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Actually no, it came as more and more wealth was being concentrated in the hands of fewer and fewer people... the Rural area, small and mid sized farmers were squeezed out as much cheaper grain from overseas flooded into Rome. Much farmland was abandoned in the face of grain imported from Carthage (when Rome lost Carthage famine became a frequent visitor to a City noted for luxurious consumption) People LEFT the farms for the cities.

    Cheap labor in the form of slaves brought back from conquests, reduced the earning power of free but poorer citizens.

    Taxes on the middle and lower classes increased to pay for the Legions, which FYI didn't decline because the people allowed the military to do so, the military declined because fewer and fewer Citizens were willing to go to the far ends of the earth for decades- the elite had more important things to do, the poor didn't feel like increasing the wealth of the elite.

    'The People' didn't allow anything. The Empire over reached, pride, hubris kept EVERYONE from seeing the cost of far flung Legions, an over reliance on exploitative policies toward the outer provinces, and a vicious ruthlessness in the ruling class.

    Cliff notes are good for those who just want to pass the course- however they don't give any insight. Fact is the Empire didn't go from conquer to Rome being sacked in a few years, but a slow and halting process over centuries.

    Revolts happened repeatedly, assassination was common. Slaves rose in revolt, Generals rose in revolt, hungry Romans rioted...

    A democracy, a Democratic Republic, a system where the people vote has a better chance at avoiding a collapse, but the sad fact is empire after empire rose and fell because people are human...
    Rome lived upon its principal till ruin stared it in the face. Industry is the only true source of wealth, and there was no industry in Rome. By day the Ostia road was crowded with carts and muleteers, carrying to the great city the silks and spices of the East, the marble of Asia Minor, the timber of the Atlas, the grain of Africa and Egypt; and the carts brought out nothing but loads of dung. That was their return cargo.

    The Martyrdom of Man by Winwood Reade (1871)
    If I didn't respond to your diatribe, it's possible you may have
    engaged in revisionism or broad sweeping generalizations.
    I don't have time for either, and you're probably on my IGNORE list.

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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Ummm no, the American people were done with Iraq and the huge waste of American lives and treasure. BushII had already squandered any effective endgame by having ZERO realistic approach to 'after the fall'. He had already declared we were leaving Iraq before he left office.

    BushII never got the three biggest factions to form a real central government- do we see the Kurds flooding out of their semi-autonomous region to repel the terrorists??? They seem to be saying let the Arabs kill each other- even though they know the terrorists are Sunnis who backed Saddam and his genocidal attacks on Kurds.

    The Iraqis didn't want us to stay so Obama would have to force any remaining combat units on the 'elected' government- not what democracies do.

    Bottom line, the Iraqis had plenty of time to build a military capable of defeating 800 terrorists in pick-ups...
    GWB won a victory. BHO has thrown it away.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    That only goes so far. Outreach to the Sunnis was the key, and that's why Maliki needed us. GWB won a victory. BHO has thrown it away.
    And look what the Sunnis whom we armed and trained to fight. They ran away.
    "If you can't stand the way this place is, Take yourself to higher places!"
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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

    You do realize that Jack Hays is trolling.

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