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Thread: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance [W:246, 565, *656*]

  1. #831
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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    We read different history books... mine said Roman society became the rich elite, small tenant farmers/craftsmen, and the serf/slave cast, none wanted to die for the Empire, the former because they were 'too important' and the latter two because it gained them nothing.

    Those in power- politicians, generals and aristocrats- were so busy fighting for power they turned their backs on everything but pursuit of the throne or 'ambition'. They had a very arrogant worldview that saw every non-roman as barbarians, thus inferior.

    The legions, once a symbol of Roman Might, became an Emperor maker or breaker... huge bribes to keep the Officers an ally, the men willing to kill their fellow citizens to make or remove an Emperor....

    The masses that once flocked to the Eagle, even after a huge massacre such as Cannae, or Teutoburg Forest, now were disgusted by what that Eagle represented.
    But it is what happened prior that allowed those living in urban areas to experience an economic collapse that led to them leaving for work in rural areas on farms that had been bought on the cheap by the wealthy and introduced these people to the world of serfdom. The people allowed it to happen because they became complacent. They became an empire no longer able to defend their borders because they allowed their military to decline. Their currency collapsed. Their trade with the world had diminished. You can blame the leaders if you like but it was the people that allowed them to get away with it till it was to late change course.

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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    More lefty agit-prop links.
    I get it, CONservatives HATE FACTS


    US Senate's committee on banking, housing and urban affairs -- which oversees American exports policy -- reveal that the US, under the successive administrations of Ronald Reagan and George Bush Snr, sold materials including anthrax, VX nerve gas, West Nile fever germs and botulism to Iraq right up until March 1992, as well as germs similar to tuberculosis and pneumonia.


    How Did Iraq Get Its WMD? - We Sold Them To Saddam

    Back in 1992, the Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs, which is the Committee which has Senate oversight for the Export Administration Act, held an inquiry into the United States export policy to Iraq prior to the Persian Gulf War. During that hearing it was learned that U.N. inspectors had identified many United States-manufactured items that had been exported from the United States to Iraq under licenses issued by the Department of
    Commerce, and that these items were used to further Iraq's chemical and nuclear weapons development and missile delivery system development programs.


    Full text of "United States dual-use exports to Iraq and their impact on the health of the Persian Gulf war veterans : hearing before the Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs, United States Senate, One Hundred Third Congress, second sessi



    Support from the U.S. for Iraq was not a secret and was frequently discussed in open session of the Senate and House of Representatives. On June 9, 1992, Ted Koppel reported on ABC's Nightline,that the "Reagan/Bush administrations permitted—and frequently encouraged—the flow of money, agricultural credits, dual-use technology, chemicals, and weapons to Iraq."

    IR655: "The USS Vincennes: Public War, Secret War": (ABC Nightline, July 1 1992) (Iran Air, 290 victims)


    On February 9, 1994, Senator Riegle delivered a report -commonly known at the Riegle Report- in which it was stated that "pathogenic (meaning 'disease producing'), toxigenic (meaning 'poisonous'), and other biological research materials were exported to Iraq pursuant to application and licensing by the U.S. Department of Commerce." It added: "These exported biological materials were not attenuated or weakened and were capable of reproduction."

    Reigle Report

    The report then detailed 70 shipments (including Bacillus anthracis) from the United States to Iraqi government agencies over three years, concluding "It was later learned that these microorganisms exported by the United States were identical to those the UN inspectors found and recovered from the Iraqi biological warfare program."


    Senator Riegle's Report

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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

    Quote Originally Posted by dad2three2001 View Post
    I get it, CONservatives HATE FACTS


    US Senate's committee on banking, housing and urban affairs -- which oversees American exports policy -- reveal that the US, under the successive administrations of Ronald Reagan and George Bush Snr, sold materials including anthrax, VX nerve gas, West Nile fever germs and botulism to Iraq right up until March 1992, as well as germs similar to tuberculosis and pneumonia.


    How Did Iraq Get Its WMD? - We Sold Them To Saddam

    Back in 1992, the Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs, which is the Committee which has Senate oversight for the Export Administration Act, held an inquiry into the United States export policy to Iraq prior to the Persian Gulf War. During that hearing it was learned that U.N. inspectors had identified many United States-manufactured items that had been exported from the United States to Iraq under licenses issued by the Department of
    Commerce, and that these items were used to further Iraq's chemical and nuclear weapons development and missile delivery system development programs.


    Full text of "United States dual-use exports to Iraq and their impact on the health of the Persian Gulf war veterans : hearing before the Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs, United States Senate, One Hundred Third Congress, second sessi



    Support from the U.S. for Iraq was not a secret and was frequently discussed in open session of the Senate and House of Representatives. On June 9, 1992, Ted Koppel reported on ABC's Nightline,that the "Reagan/Bush administrations permitted—and frequently encouraged—the flow of money, agricultural credits, dual-use technology, chemicals, and weapons to Iraq."

    IR655: "The USS Vincennes: Public War, Secret War": (ABC Nightline, July 1 1992) (Iran Air, 290 victims)


    On February 9, 1994, Senator Riegle delivered a report -commonly known at the Riegle Report- in which it was stated that "pathogenic (meaning 'disease producing'), toxigenic (meaning 'poisonous'), and other biological research materials were exported to Iraq pursuant to application and licensing by the U.S. Department of Commerce." It added: "These exported biological materials were not attenuated or weakened and were capable of reproduction."

    Reigle Report

    The report then detailed 70 shipments (including Bacillus anthracis) from the United States to Iraqi government agencies over three years, concluding "It was later learned that these microorganisms exported by the United States were identical to those the UN inspectors found and recovered from the Iraqi biological warfare program."


    Senator Riegle's Report

    Yawn. Yes, we leaned toward Iraq in their war with Iran. Wise policy. No. We did not provide VX to Iraq. Provision of anthrax was simply a countermeasure; that's how diseases work.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

    Quote Originally Posted by dad2three2001 View Post
    In an October 1, 2002, article entitled “Iraq Got Germs for Weapons Program from U.S. in ’80s,” Associated Press writer Matt Kelly
    That is pretty funny propaganda.

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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Had it been otherwise, there would have been an agreement.
    I don't see how your response relates to the post you quote.
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Okay, so I have heard this before. IOW, he was trying to make it APPEAR to everyone as if he had WMD. So then, are we to blame for believing that he did? And still, who knows if he really did or not? He was a very dishonest and sadistic man who was FAR from trustworthy.
    The blame belongs squarely upon him.

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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Satellite IMAGES are NOT right wing garbage. Neither is any of the other evidence I posted. However, ALL of the witnesses and people who reported that there were WMD had suffered character assassination. That certainly does NOT mean they were lying.
    YES, The satellite images ARE right wing garbage


    Resurrecting the Iraqi WMD to Syria Myth

    They lied about everything. They lied about Iraq’s UAVs, they lied about Saddam’s resumption of Iraq’s nuclear program, they lied about Iraq’s anthrax, they lied about Iraq’s aluminum tubes, they lied about mobile biological weapons labs, they lied about Iraq’s effort to obtain yellowcake uranium from Niger, they lied about Saddam “bluffing” about having WMDs when he only ever denied having them, etc., etc., ad nauseum. They lied. And there isn’t any question about that.

    Second of all, this isn’t a conclusion drawn only after WMD weren’t found following the invasion, it was perfectly obvious to anyone paying the slightest bit of attention before the war even began


    Resurrecting the Iraqi WMD to Syria Myth | Jeremy R. Hammond

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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

    Quote Originally Posted by Muhammed View Post
    That is pretty funny propaganda.
    TWO SENATE REPORTS?

    Reports by the US Senate's committee on banking, housing and urban affairs -- which oversees American exports policy -- reveal that the US, under the successive administrations of Ronald Reagan and George Bush Snr, sold materials including anthrax, VX nerve gas, West Nile fever germs and botulism to Iraq right up until March 1992

    February 9, 1994, Senator Riegle delivered a report -commonly known at the Riegle Report- in which it was stated that "pathogenic (meaning 'disease producing'), toxigenic (meaning 'poisonous'), and other biological research materials were exported to Iraq pursuant to application and licensing by the U.S. Department of Commerce." It added: "These exported biological materials were not attenuated or weakened and were capable of reproduction."[29]

    The report then detailed 70 shipments (including Bacillus anthracis) from the United States to Iraqi government agencies over three years


    YEAH, FUNNY..

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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    I don't see how your response relates to the post you quote.
    Quite simply, BHO was given all the tools for an effective endgame, and squandered the opportunity.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    But it is what happened prior that allowed those living in urban areas to experience an economic collapse that led to them leaving for work in rural areas on farms that had been bought on the cheap by the wealthy and introduced these people to the world of serfdom. The people allowed it to happen because they became complacent. They became an empire no longer able to defend their borders because they allowed their military to decline. Their currency collapsed. Their trade with the world had diminished. You can blame the leaders if you like but it was the people that allowed them to get away with it till it was to late change course.
    Actually no, it came as more and more wealth was being concentrated in the hands of fewer and fewer people... the Rural area, small and mid sized farmers were squeezed out as much cheaper grain from overseas flooded into Rome. Much farmland was abandoned in the face of grain imported from Carthage (when Rome lost Carthage famine became a frequent visitor to a City noted for luxurious consumption) People LEFT the farms for the cities.

    Cheap labor in the form of slaves brought back from conquests, reduced the earning power of free but poorer citizens.

    Taxes on the middle and lower classes increased to pay for the Legions, which FYI didn't decline because the people allowed the military to do so, the military declined because fewer and fewer Citizens were willing to go to the far ends of the earth for decades- the elite had more important things to do, the poor didn't feel like increasing the wealth of the elite.

    'The People' didn't allow anything. The Empire over reached, pride, hubris kept EVERYONE from seeing the cost of far flung Legions, an over reliance on exploitative policies toward the outer provinces, and a vicious ruthlessness in the ruling class.

    Cliff notes are good for those who just want to pass the course- however they don't give any insight. Fact is the Empire didn't go from conquer to Rome being sacked in a few years, but a slow and halting process over centuries.

    Revolts happened repeatedly, assassination was common. Slaves rose in revolt, Generals rose in revolt, hungry Romans rioted...

    A democracy, a Democratic Republic, a system where the people vote has a better chance at avoiding a collapse, but the sad fact is empire after empire rose and fell because people are human...

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