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Thread: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance [W:246, 565, *656*]

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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance [W:246, 565, *656*]

    Back To Iraq. General Swarzcoff (sp)said "We or our children will be back."

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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Moderator's Warning:
    Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance [W:246, 565, *656*]Alright folks...

    There is an ENTIRE forum dedicated to the military where you can prattle on to your hearts content debating about whose fault Iraq is or what your opinions of Clintons actions were or anything else like that.

    This thread however is SPECIFICLY for the discussion of the Breaking News regarding the insurgent advance in Iraq.

    If your post doesn't DIRECTLY and clearly relate to that going forward then understand you may be met with thread bans. This is the breaking news section. It's here to discuss the breaking news stories. It's not here to be the catch all "everything related to iraq in any way shape or form" thread.
    Well, damn. The soap box looked so big it's just very tempting. I even found Iraq on the map just to be prepared. For example, I was completely unaware that Iraq borders Texas. Okay, maybe I had the map folded the wrong way, but it made for interesting speculation, all the same.

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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Probably the mystery of what happened to Saddam's WMD will never be fully known. He had plenty of time to move out a lot of stuff during the 12 long weeks that we negotiated with the U.N. that was reluctant to enforce its own resolutions re Iraq. But to put that into perspective, 60 million people were killed to put down tyranny in World War II. Most of the Iraqis killed were killed by other tyrants who did not want there to be democracy or freedom in the Middle East. But the decade of sanctions were also taking their toll on the Iraqi people with some 50,000, many of those children, believed to have died from malnutrition and other deprivation as a direct result of those sanctions that were severely hurting the people and greatly enriching Saddam and his cronies.

    But in World War II, the tyrants were overcome with overwhelming force and brought to complete, unconditional surrender. Then we could help them rebuild under our terms alone. The 'evil' nations were completely transformed into peaceful allies, good neighbors to the world.

    We didn't have the will to do that in Iraq. As we have done in every military conflict since, however, we didn't have the will to use overwhelming force and bring the nation to complete submission in Iraq. We just stopped fighting the war. And every time we have done that, we left an enemy, not an ally, when we left.

    I don't know why anybody thought Iraq would be any different.
    Much of why "we just stop fighting the war" over the years is because the people grow weary of the situation and propaganda is a major factor in accomplishing that. Take the Iraq war. First the Democrats were all on board for the invasion. Two years later they started changing their tune heading up to the 2004 elections. It was at that point the media was pivotal in the constant drum beat of an anti-Iraq message. The Democrats took every opportunity to depict our soldiers as heartless murderers. Remember Haditha? Where the two "Johns" Murtha and Kerry were constantly accusing our soldiers of autrocities? Ironically after almost destroying these soldier's lives every one of them was proved innocent. The rules in which our military operates changes with every administration. In the past six years this administration has pretty much tied the hands of our soldiers keeping them from doing what they were trained to do. Take Benghazi as an example. According to recently declassified testimony of Gen. Martin Dempsey, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, before the House Armed Services Committee in October, the U.S. military regards itself as legally barred from going after the perpetrators of the Benghazi attacks (and, presumably, others who attack Americans) unless they are affiliated with al-Qaeda. The Obama administration’s parsing of words to deny al-Qaeda’s direct involvement effectively precludes a military response in these types of situations. There are consequences for elections and we sure as hell are paying dearly for the last two when it comes to our defense and military.

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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    Like that wonderful Iraqi military we trained that are joining the ISIS? They don't support the Maliki gov't because it's a Shiia minority running roughshod over a Sunni majority. Besides they don't want our democracy and never did.
    For clarification Iraq is 60-70% Shia with a Sunni minority. What evidence do you have that Iraqi's do not want democracy? Numerous polls in tandem with electoral participation seem to indicate otherwise. They simply want an equitable and working democracy instead of what they've been presented with.

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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    Yes, that would be the worst case for sure.



    I don't think it was Bush who left Iraq too soon.



    Yes, even back then I was saying that we should plan for a decades long occupation, but not a permanent one. I would have hoped that the Bush foreign policy team would recognize the need for continued involvement. Is there anyone who actually believed at the time that pulling out in 2011 wasn't too soon? I just could not imagine that Iraq was able to go it alone at that point. I don't think Iraq did, either, but they got themselves in a pissing contest with our CnC.



    China would take big losses if they tried it. I was thinking of a scenario in which China was denied a source of oil and they turned to military intervention in desperation. The Chinese seem reluctant to extend much beyond their traditional borders.
    Oh, so we left too early, got it. How long was America supposed to stay and hold Malaki's hand? 10 years? 15? 20? remember, he didn't want us there under our conditions.

    I read on USA today that Obama isn't going to send troops, whew, I'm glad. And the secretary said we'll have limited air engagement with this ISIS group.
    Last edited by AJiveMan; 06-13-14 at 02:53 PM.

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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    Like that wonderful Iraqi military we trained that are joining the ISIS? They don't support the Maliki gov't because it's a Shiia minority running roughshod over a Sunni majority. Besides they don't want our democracy and never did.
    Except that the Shi'a sect is the majority there by a wide margin--roughly 2/3rds Shi'a to 1/3rd Sunni. Saddam Hussein and his Ba'ath party and his elite Republican Army were Sunni Muslims and reigned with an iron hand over the majority Shiites. The new government promoted by the USA and U.N. was largely controlled by Shi'a Muslims and the minority Sunnis have deeply resented losing power and being relegated to minority status. The new insurgency is almost certainly all Sunnis infiltrated by al-Qaida and other terrorist/pro Islamic state/anti-liberty forces.

    In the aftermath of the Iraqi invasion, Donald Rumsfield commented that one of their worst mistakes was not disarming the Republican Army before disbanding it and sending those people home. They then became the core of the insurgency that wrecked so much havoc on Iraq in the years following the invasion. In retrospect I don't think it made much difference. There are plenty of anti-liberty forces in the Middle East more than anxious to arm anybody willing to fight for the glory of Allah.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    Let's take a walk down memory lane shall we? There were several chemical weapon factories discovered where intelligence believed they were destined to be used against our troops. The threat of chemical weapons being used on our guys in the region through terrorist organizations Saddam was funding was real. It is why all the troops were equipped with special outerwear. Some of the intelligence was faulty ......some of it wasn't.
    IF you read the article it is pretty clear the chemical weapon factory was set-up AFTER the fall of Saddam. It NEVER produced any chem weapons, so it isn't proof Saddam's regime made post GWI chem weapons for use against American troops.

    No smoking gun and the terrorist group responsible was most likely the same al-queera crowd Saddam hated and called Saddam a heretic....

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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    Would you support the US losing, if it meant Obama looked bad and got removed or would you support a US victory, even if it made Obama look good?
    I for one would welcome an Obama victory that made him look good. I just know by now that that is not ever going to happen.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Alright folks...
    Right on.



    Quote Originally Posted by Travis007 View Post
    Ummmduh..yea ok.. this is why your posts are nonsense and ill informed...
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/conspi...post1063398522
    “Now it is not good for the Christian’s health to hustle the Aryan brown,
    For the Christian riles, and the Aryan smiles and he weareth the Christian down;
    And the end of the fight is a tombstone white with the name of the late deceased,
    And the epitaph drear: “A Fool lies here who tried to hustle the East.”

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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    I for one would welcome an Obama victory that made him look good. I just know by now that that is not ever going to happen.
    Well, if ISIS is on the march to Baghdad, this might work.


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