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Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance [W:246, 565, *656*]

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Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

Muhammed said:
TOPSI? :lol:


Did you just make that up?
Click to expand...

We Sold Them To Saddam
By Neil Mackay and Felicity Arbuthnot
The Sunday Herald - UK
9-6-2

The US and Britain sold Saddam Hussein the technology and materials Iraq needed to develop nuclear, chemical and biological weapons of mass destruction.

Reports by the US Senate's committee on banking, housing and urban affairs -- which oversees American exports policy -- reveal that the US, under the successive administrations of Ronald Reagan and George Bush Snr, sold materials including anthrax, VX nerve gas, West Nile fever germs and botulism to Iraq right up until March 1992, as well as germs similar to tuberculosis and pneumonia.

How Did Iraq Get Its WMD? - We Sold Them To Saddam
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

Jack Hays said:
Really? Is that why I support abortion choice, same sex marriage, drug legalization and open borders?:peace
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Libertarians are FARRRR right on ECONOMIC issues, should have been clearer, I consider Ronn Paul FARRRR right too :)
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

dad2three2001 said:
In an October 1, 2002, article entitled “Iraq Got Germs for Weapons Program from U.S. in ’80s,” Associated Press writer Matt Kelly

In a September 26, 2002, article entitled “Following Iraq's Bioweapons Trail,” columnist Robert Novak wrote,

An eight-year-old Senate report confirms that disease-producing and poisonous materials were exported, under U.S. government license, to Iraq from 1985 to 1988 during the Iran-Iraq war. Furthermore, the report adds, the American-exported materials were identical to microorganisms destroyed by United Nations inspectors after the Gulf War. The shipments were approved despite allegations that Saddam used biological weapons against Kurdish rebels and (according to the current official U.S. position) initiated war with Iran.

MANY more articles here

Reagan's WMD Connection to Saddam Hussein by Jacob Hornberger


The US and Britain sold Saddam Hussein the technology and materials Iraq needed to develop nuclear, chemical and biological weapons of mass destruction.

Reports by the US Senate's committee on banking, housing and urban affairs -- which oversees American exports policy -- reveal that the US, under the successive administrations of Ronald Reagan and George Bush Snr, sold materials including anthrax, VX nerve gas, West Nile fever germs and botulism to Iraq right up until March 1992, as well as germs similar to tuberculosis and pneumonia. Other bacteria sold included brucella melitensis, which damages major organs, and clostridium perfringens, which causes gas gangrene.


How Did Iraq Get Its WMD? - We Sold Them To Saddam
Click to expand...

More lefty agit-prop links. :peace
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

ChrisL said:
Besides a LACK of conclusive evidence, there is nothing to indicate that it is not plausible to believe that Saddam Hussein had WMD. Even HE admitted that he tried to make it sound as if he did at the very least. He was trying to convince the international community that he had WMD because he was in fear of Iran.

None of this disproves that there were, prior to 2003, WMD being stockpiled or manufactured in Iraq. It is certainly plausible.
Click to expand...

We Sold Them To Saddam
By Neil Mackay and Felicity Arbuthnot
The Sunday Herald - UK
9-6-2

The US and Britain sold Saddam Hussein the technology and materials Iraq needed to develop nuclear, chemical and biological weapons of mass destruction.

How Did Iraq Get Its WMD? - We Sold Them To Saddam

THE WMD'S FAIL WAS THEY DEGRADED BEFORE DUBYA'S WAR OF CHOICE :)
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

dad2three2001 said:
Libertarians are FARRRR right on ECONOMIC issues, should have been clearer, I consider Ronn Paul FARRRR right too :)
Click to expand...

I don't care for Ron Paul, and I don't have a problem with Keynes on principle.:peace
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

notquiteright said:
We read different history books... mine said Roman society became the rich elite, small tenant farmers/craftsmen, and the serf/slave cast, none wanted to die for the Empire, the former because they were 'too important' and the latter two because it gained them nothing.

Those in power- politicians, generals and aristocrats- were so busy fighting for power they turned their backs on everything but pursuit of the throne or 'ambition'. They had a very arrogant worldview that saw every non-roman as barbarians, thus inferior.

The legions, once a symbol of Roman Might, became an Emperor maker or breaker... huge bribes to keep the Officers an ally, the men willing to kill their fellow citizens to make or remove an Emperor....

The masses that once flocked to the Eagle, even after a huge massacre such as Cannae, or Teutoburg Forest, now were disgusted by what that Eagle represented.
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But it is what happened prior that allowed those living in urban areas to experience an economic collapse that led to them leaving for work in rural areas on farms that had been bought on the cheap by the wealthy and introduced these people to the world of serfdom. The people allowed it to happen because they became complacent. They became an empire no longer able to defend their borders because they allowed their military to decline. Their currency collapsed. Their trade with the world had diminished. You can blame the leaders if you like but it was the people that allowed them to get away with it till it was to late change course.
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

Jack Hays said:
More lefty agit-prop links. :peace
Click to expand...

I get it, CONservatives HATE FACTS


US Senate's committee on banking, housing and urban affairs -- which oversees American exports policy -- reveal that the US, under the successive administrations of Ronald Reagan and George Bush Snr, sold materials including anthrax, VX nerve gas, West Nile fever germs and botulism to Iraq right up until March 1992, as well as germs similar to tuberculosis and pneumonia.


How Did Iraq Get Its WMD? - We Sold Them To Saddam

Back in 1992, the Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs, which is the Committee which has Senate oversight for the Export Administration Act, held an inquiry into the United States export policy to Iraq prior to the Persian Gulf War. During that hearing it was learned that U.N. inspectors had identified many United States-manufactured items that had been exported from the United States to Iraq under licenses issued by the Department of
Commerce, and that these items were used to further Iraq's chemical and nuclear weapons development and missile delivery system development programs.


Full text of "United States dual-use exports to Iraq and their impact on the health of the Persian Gulf war veterans : hearing before the Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs, United States Senate, One Hundred Third Congress, second sessi



Support from the U.S. for Iraq was not a secret and was frequently discussed in open session of the Senate and House of Representatives. On June 9, 1992, Ted Koppel reported on ABC's Nightline,that the "Reagan/Bush administrations permitted—and frequently encouraged—the flow of money, agricultural credits, dual-use technology, chemicals, and weapons to Iraq."

IR655: "The USS Vincennes: Public War, Secret War": (ABC Nightline, July 1 1992) (Iran Air, 290 victims)


On February 9, 1994, Senator Riegle delivered a report -commonly known at the Riegle Report- in which it was stated that "pathogenic (meaning 'disease producing'), toxigenic (meaning 'poisonous'), and other biological research materials were exported to Iraq pursuant to application and licensing by the U.S. Department of Commerce." It added: "These exported biological materials were not attenuated or weakened and were capable of reproduction."

Reigle Report

The report then detailed 70 shipments (including Bacillus anthracis) from the United States to Iraqi government agencies over three years, concluding "It was later learned that these microorganisms exported by the United States were identical to those the UN inspectors found and recovered from the Iraqi biological warfare program."


Senator Riegle's Report
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

dad2three2001 said:
I get it, CONservatives HATE FACTS


US Senate's committee on banking, housing and urban affairs -- which oversees American exports policy -- reveal that the US, under the successive administrations of Ronald Reagan and George Bush Snr, sold materials including anthrax, VX nerve gas, West Nile fever germs and botulism to Iraq right up until March 1992, as well as germs similar to tuberculosis and pneumonia.


How Did Iraq Get Its WMD? - We Sold Them To Saddam

Back in 1992, the Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs, which is the Committee which has Senate oversight for the Export Administration Act, held an inquiry into the United States export policy to Iraq prior to the Persian Gulf War. During that hearing it was learned that U.N. inspectors had identified many United States-manufactured items that had been exported from the United States to Iraq under licenses issued by the Department of
Commerce, and that these items were used to further Iraq's chemical and nuclear weapons development and missile delivery system development programs.


Full text of "United States dual-use exports to Iraq and their impact on the health of the Persian Gulf war veterans : hearing before the Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs, United States Senate, One Hundred Third Congress, second sessi



Support from the U.S. for Iraq was not a secret and was frequently discussed in open session of the Senate and House of Representatives. On June 9, 1992, Ted Koppel reported on ABC's Nightline,that the "Reagan/Bush administrations permitted—and frequently encouraged—the flow of money, agricultural credits, dual-use technology, chemicals, and weapons to Iraq."

IR655: "The USS Vincennes: Public War, Secret War": (ABC Nightline, July 1 1992) (Iran Air, 290 victims)


On February 9, 1994, Senator Riegle delivered a report -commonly known at the Riegle Report- in which it was stated that "pathogenic (meaning 'disease producing'), toxigenic (meaning 'poisonous'), and other biological research materials were exported to Iraq pursuant to application and licensing by the U.S. Department of Commerce." It added: "These exported biological materials were not attenuated or weakened and were capable of reproduction."

Reigle Report

The report then detailed 70 shipments (including Bacillus anthracis) from the United States to Iraqi government agencies over three years, concluding "It was later learned that these microorganisms exported by the United States were identical to those the UN inspectors found and recovered from the Iraqi biological warfare program."


Senator Riegle's Report
Click to expand...


Yawn. Yes, we leaned toward Iraq in their war with Iran. Wise policy. No. We did not provide VX to Iraq. Provision of anthrax was simply a countermeasure; that's how diseases work.:peace
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

dad2three2001 said:
In an October 1, 2002, article entitled “Iraq Got Germs for Weapons Program from U.S. in ’80s,” Associated Press writer Matt Kelly
Click to expand...
That is pretty funny propaganda. :monkey
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

Jack Hays said:
Had it been otherwise, there would have been an agreement.:peace
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I don't see how your response relates to the post you quote.
:shrug:
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

ChrisL said:
Okay, so I have heard this before. IOW, he was trying to make it APPEAR to everyone as if he had WMD. So then, are we to blame for believing that he did? And still, who knows if he really did or not? He was a very dishonest and sadistic man who was FAR from trustworthy.
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The blame belongs squarely upon him.
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

ChrisL said:
Satellite IMAGES are NOT right wing garbage. Neither is any of the other evidence I posted. However, ALL of the witnesses and people who reported that there were WMD had suffered character assassination. That certainly does NOT mean they were lying.
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YES, The satellite images ARE right wing garbage


Resurrecting the Iraqi WMD to Syria Myth

They lied about everything. They lied about Iraq’s UAVs, they lied about Saddam’s resumption of Iraq’s nuclear program, they lied about Iraq’s anthrax, they lied about Iraq’s aluminum tubes, they lied about mobile biological weapons labs, they lied about Iraq’s effort to obtain yellowcake uranium from Niger, they lied about Saddam “bluffing” about having WMDs when he only ever denied having them, etc., etc., ad nauseum. They lied. And there isn’t any question about that.

Second of all, this isn’t a conclusion drawn only after WMD weren’t found following the invasion, it was perfectly obvious to anyone paying the slightest bit of attention before the war even began


Resurrecting the Iraqi WMD to Syria Myth | Jeremy R. Hammond
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

Muhammed said:
That is pretty funny propaganda. :monkey
Click to expand...

TWO SENATE REPORTS?

Reports by the US Senate's committee on banking, housing and urban affairs -- which oversees American exports policy -- reveal that the US, under the successive administrations of Ronald Reagan and George Bush Snr, sold materials including anthrax, VX nerve gas, West Nile fever germs and botulism to Iraq right up until March 1992

February 9, 1994, Senator Riegle delivered a report -commonly known at the Riegle Report- in which it was stated that "pathogenic (meaning 'disease producing'), toxigenic (meaning 'poisonous'), and other biological research materials were exported to Iraq pursuant to application and licensing by the U.S. Department of Commerce." It added: "These exported biological materials were not attenuated or weakened and were capable of reproduction."[29]

The report then detailed 70 shipments (including Bacillus anthracis) from the United States to Iraqi government agencies over three years


YEAH, FUNNY..
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

Simon W. Moon said:
I don't see how your response relates to the post you quote.
:shrug:
Click to expand...

Quite simply, BHO was given all the tools for an effective endgame, and squandered the opportunity.:peace
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

vesper said:
But it is what happened prior that allowed those living in urban areas to experience an economic collapse that led to them leaving for work in rural areas on farms that had been bought on the cheap by the wealthy and introduced these people to the world of serfdom. The people allowed it to happen because they became complacent. They became an empire no longer able to defend their borders because they allowed their military to decline. Their currency collapsed. Their trade with the world had diminished. You can blame the leaders if you like but it was the people that allowed them to get away with it till it was to late change course.
Click to expand...

Actually no, it came as more and more wealth was being concentrated in the hands of fewer and fewer people... the Rural area, small and mid sized farmers were squeezed out as much cheaper grain from overseas flooded into Rome. Much farmland was abandoned in the face of grain imported from Carthage (when Rome lost Carthage famine became a frequent visitor to a City noted for luxurious consumption) People LEFT the farms for the cities.

Cheap labor in the form of slaves brought back from conquests, reduced the earning power of free but poorer citizens.

Taxes on the middle and lower classes increased to pay for the Legions, which FYI didn't decline because the people allowed the military to do so, the military declined because fewer and fewer Citizens were willing to go to the far ends of the earth for decades- the elite had more important things to do, the poor didn't feel like increasing the wealth of the elite.

'The People' didn't allow anything. The Empire over reached, pride, hubris kept EVERYONE from seeing the cost of far flung Legions, an over reliance on exploitative policies toward the outer provinces, and a vicious ruthlessness in the ruling class.

Cliff notes are good for those who just want to pass the course- however they don't give any insight. Fact is the Empire didn't go from conquer to Rome being sacked in a few years, but a slow and halting process over centuries.

Revolts happened repeatedly, assassination was common. Slaves rose in revolt, Generals rose in revolt, hungry Romans rioted...

A democracy, a Democratic Republic, a system where the people vote has a better chance at avoiding a collapse, but the sad fact is empire after empire rose and fell because people are human...
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

Jack Hays said:
Yawn. Yes, we leaned toward Iraq in their war with Iran. Wise policy. No. We did not provide VX to Iraq. Provision of anthrax was simply a countermeasure; that's how diseases work.:peace
Click to expand...

In CONservative speak you say? In the REALITY based community, we say Reagan and Poppy Bush GAVE Iraq WMD's!
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

Jack Hays said:
Quite simply, BHO was given all the tools for an effective endgame, and squandered the opportunity.:peace
Click to expand...

The Iraqis would not grant our forces immunity if we stayed. The Iraqis gave us the terms. Why do you not factor that into your equation.
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

vesper said:
But it is what happened prior that allowed those living in urban areas to experience an economic collapse that led to them leaving for work in rural areas on farms that had been bought on the cheap by the wealthy and introduced these people to the world of serfdom. The people allowed it to happen because they became complacent. They became an empire no longer able to defend their borders because they allowed their military to decline. Their currency collapsed. Their trade with the world had diminished. You can blame the leaders if you like but it was the people that allowed them to get away with it till it was to late change course.
Click to expand...

It's thought-provoking to realize that much of your post could have been written about current events! :eek:

Greetings, Vesper. :2wave:
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

Jack Hays said:
Quite simply, BHO was given all the tools for an effective endgame, and squandered the opportunity.:peace
Click to expand...

No, al-Maliki was given all the tools for an effective endgame, and he squandered them in favour of being a sectarian thug. ISIS is the chickens coming home to roost.
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

Muhammed said:
That is pretty funny propaganda. :monkey
Click to expand...

February 9, 1994, Senator Riegle delivered a report -commonly known at the Riegle Report- in which it was stated that "pathogenic (meaning 'disease producing'), toxigenic (meaning 'poisonous'), and other biological research materials were exported to Iraq pursuant to application and licensing by the U.S. Department of Commerce." It added: "These exported biological materials were not attenuated or weakened and were capable of reproduction."[29]

The report then detailed 70 shipments (including Bacillus anthracis) from the United States to Iraqi government agencies over three years, concluding "It was later learned that these microorganisms exported by the United States were identical to those the UN inspectors found and recovered from the Iraqi biological warfare program."


Riegle Report - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In a September 26, 2002, article entitled “Following Iraq's Bioweapons Trail,” columnist Robert Novak wrote,

An eight-year-old Senate report confirms that disease-producing and poisonous materials were exported, under U.S. government license, to Iraq from 1985 to 1988 during the Iran-Iraq war. Furthermore, the report adds, the American-exported materials were identical to microorganisms destroyed by United Nations inspectors after the Gulf War. The shipments were approved despite allegations that Saddam used biological weapons against Kurdish rebels and (according to the current official U.S. position) initiated war with Iran.

In a September 18, 2002, ABC article entitled “A Tortured Relationship,” reporter Chris Bury wrote,

Indeed, even as President Bush castigates Saddam’s regime as “a grave and gathering danger,” it’s important to remember that the United States helped arm Iraq with the very weapons that administration officials are now citing as justification for Saddam’s forcible removal from power.

In a March 16, 2003, article entitled “How Iraq Built Its Weapons Program,” in the St. Petersburg Times, staff writer Tom Drury wrote,

Yet here we are, on the eve of what could turn into a $100-billion war to disarm and dismantle the Iraqi dictatorship. U.N. inspectors are working against the clock to figure out if Iraq retains chemical and biological weapons, the systems to deliver them, and the capacity to manufacture them.

And here’s the strange part, easily forgotten in the barrage of recent rhetoric: It was Western governments and businesses that helped build that capacity in the first place. From anthrax to high-speed computers to artillery ammunition cases, the militarily useful products of a long list of Western democracies flowed into Iraq in the decade before its 1990 invasion of Kuwait.

Unfortunately, the U.S.-WMD connection to Saddam Hussein involved more than just delivering those WMDs to him. In an August 18, 2002, New York Times article entitled “Officers Say U.S. Aided Iraq in War Despite Use of Gas,” Patrick E. Tyler wrote,

Reagan's WMD Connection to Saddam Hussein by Jacob Hornberger

GO AHEAD, CUT DOWN THE QUOTES AGAIN :)
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

Unitedwestand13 said:
The Iraqis would not grant our forces immunity if we stayed. The Iraqis gave us the terms. Why do you not factor that into your equation.
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Because there were easy ways to negotiate around that. Maliki was just politicking for the home folks. He wanted us to stay and we knew that, but BHO wanted to exploit the opening to leave altogether.:peace
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

Amadeus said:
No, al-Maliki was given all the tools for an effective endgame, and he squandered them in favour of being a sectarian thug. ISIS is the chickens coming home to roost.
Click to expand...


Maliki wanted us us to stay.:peace
 
Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

Jack Hays said:
Because there were easy ways to negotiate around that. Maliki was just politicking for the home folks. He wanted us to stay and we knew that, but BHO wanted to exploit the opening to leave altogether.:peace
Click to expand...

Mind reader too huh?
 
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