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Thread: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance [W:246, 565, *656*]

  1. #1081
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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    More CON crap, the economy went into free fall when the HOUSING bubble collapsed, BUSHII was President and just like every other crisis he was at first overwhelmed and then poured massive amounts of tax payer money into the sinkhole (Which CONs went along with as long as a CON President was in office) You seem to forget that the engine driving the 'record' growth was doing so by cannibalizing itself. Stripping more and more from the structure below to attempt to reach higher with paper profits and fund manager profits...

    Your blaming DEMs in Congress is like me blaming my wife for a streetlight going out as we pass under it... that light was on the path to failure long before we even started the car...

    Same with Iraq where the 'Decider in Chief' refused to listen to the Generals for years as the 'dead-enders' grew to a major insurgency and then poured massive amounts of bribes and troops (the numbers originally given as required by the Generals BTW) in a desperate attempt to stave off Iraq disintegrating. But key was giving a date certain for our withdrawal.

    So Iraq wasn't stable when BushII left, it was bribed into a lull AFTER BushII announced we would be leaving with a date certain...

    You CONs refuse to admit BushII so screwed this pooch from day one that there was no 'fixing' it. You refuse to admit Iraq was a tottering house of cards when BushII left with no real central government as the Sunnis, Kurds and Shi'ites ALL wanted to go their own way. You seem to think we can force other governments to do our bidding and they will do so like reluctant children.

    BushII's record in office was one of a strutting, stuttering, drawling, little big man who finally couldn't leverage the family name for 'success'. His misplaced faith in American Exceptialism cost us as badly as Crassus cost the Romans at Carrhae.
    I think that, instead of interfering, he should have let some of those corporations claim bankruptcy. It, of course, would have been painful for some people for a while, but that is how capitalism works. That is the reason WHY we have bankruptcy as an option. I was totally against ALL of those bail outs. We the taxpayers should never have to bail out a floundering business. This does NOTHING to encourage better business practices in the future. In fact, it makes it so that this is expected, and that is bogus and makes me quite angry sometimes.

  2. #1082
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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I think that, instead of interfering, he should have let some of those corporations claim bankruptcy. It, of course, would have been painful for some people for a while, but that is how capitalism works. That is the reason WHY we have bankruptcy as an option. I was totally against ALL of those bail outs. We the taxpayers should never have to bail out a floundering business. This does NOTHING to encourage better business practices in the future. In fact, it makes it so that this is expected, and that is bogus and makes me quite angry sometimes.
    If BushII had backed the partisan political theory many CONs espouse then yes the economy should have been allowed to drive off the cliff like it routinely did in decades past. Millions more of Americans would have been out of work as the cascade of business failures would have been far more wide reaching.

    (course if CON economic philosophy was worth half a bucket of warm spit the 'invisible hand' would have stopped the bus before it got to the cliff and no CEO would have let his corporation engage in risky practices for short term gain) Remember those gems???

    As far as bankruptcy goes, the CONs pushed hard to limit that option as a loser's way out. Have you ever declared bankruptcy? A close friend did because of major medical bills even though he had pretty good medical insurance at the time. He was 300,000 in debt AFTER his insurance was done picking up it's part. He worked two jobs but finally gave in and filed. I NEVER want to go through that- EVER. (I don't think you do either)

    Keeping our economy from tanking as bad as it did ROUTINELY in the past, a quick study of our nation's capitalism shows recessions and depressions as a dismally common rate of occurrence. Unbridled capitalism does harm a nation. I'm more of a fix the problem and then hang the bastards but when lobbyists can get regulations cut and laws past it is difficult to punish those who wrecked the economy without ruining the lives of millions of 'innocent' citizens.

    Odd thing I noticed, the concept of 'innocent being harmed' in the CON world. Millions of hard working Americans would have their lives thrown into chaos and financial ruin by a cavalier attitude of 'punishing' businesses who's CEOs and major players have gold plated ejector seats and golden parachutes for just such emergencies.

    I don't see allowing businesses to collapse as punishing anyone but those millions of Middle Class Americans who's careers are now ruined but not even a paper parachute from 'corporate', millions of Retired Americans who's 401K is now worthless, and millions of Americans who never earned a penny working for or investing in the collapsing businesses but now are out of work as the collapse ends the customers they relied on.

    That's a trickle down Reagan never wanted to believe in....

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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    If BushII had backed the partisan political theory many CONs espouse then yes the economy should have been allowed to drive off the cliff like it routinely did in decades past. Millions more of Americans would have been out of work as the cascade of business failures would have been far more wide reaching.

    (course if CON economic philosophy was worth half a bucket of warm spit the 'invisible hand' would have stopped the bus before it got to the cliff and no CEO would have let his corporation engage in risky practices for short term gain) Remember those gems???

    As far as bankruptcy goes, the CONs pushed hard to limit that option as a loser's way out. Have you ever declared bankruptcy? A close friend did because of major medical bills even though he had pretty good medical insurance at the time. He was 300,000 in debt AFTER his insurance was done picking up it's part. He worked two jobs but finally gave in and filed. I NEVER want to go through that- EVER. (I don't think you do either)

    Keeping our economy from tanking as bad as it did ROUTINELY in the past, a quick study of our nation's capitalism shows recessions and depressions as a dismally common rate of occurrence. Unbridled capitalism does harm a nation. I'm more of a fix the problem and then hang the bastards but when lobbyists can get regulations cut and laws past it is difficult to punish those who wrecked the economy without ruining the lives of millions of 'innocent' citizens.

    Odd thing I noticed, the concept of 'innocent being harmed' in the CON world. Millions of hard working Americans would have their lives thrown into chaos and financial ruin by a cavalier attitude of 'punishing' businesses who's CEOs and major players have gold plated ejector seats and golden parachutes for just such emergencies.

    I don't see allowing businesses to collapse as punishing anyone but those millions of Middle Class Americans who's careers are now ruined but not even a paper parachute from 'corporate', millions of Retired Americans who's 401K is now worthless, and millions of Americans who never earned a penny working for or investing in the collapsing businesses but now are out of work as the collapse ends the customers they relied on.

    That's a trickle down Reagan never wanted to believe in....
    Those are the RISKS involved. When people invest their money, that is a risk they take and should be aware of. I feel for people who lose their jobs, but it is NOT the responsibility of the taxpayer to keep businesses up and running. No way.

    Seriously, you seem to think that life should be free of risks and that jobs and good money should be a guarantee backed by the government.

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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    I've run from nothing, you people are the ones running. The resolution included the support of big Democrats, and the truth hurts your Hate-Bush meme.
    Who was the "decider" at the time? Was it big democrats or was it George W. Bush?

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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    I've run from nothing, you people are the ones running. The resolution included the support of big Democrats, and the truth hurts your Hate-Bush meme.
    The resolution only passed the buck. Now, if your honest, just answer one question and you'll see the point. Could Bush have chose not to invade?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    The resolution only passed the buck. Now, if your honest, just answer one question and you'll see the point. Could Bush have chose not to invade?
    I am going to quote one of the demo hopefuls today and say,

    "at this point, what difference does it make...?"

    Pathetic.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I am going to quote one of the demo hopefuls today and say,

    "at this point, what difference does it make...?"

    Pathetic.
    What's pathetic was that he was correct. Bush had already decided. We were going in. Evidence be damned. We were going to recklessly spend American lives for nothing, making things worse.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

    If I'm Turkey i'm extremley worried right now.
    ‘This is not peace, it is an armistice for 20 years.’ (Ferdinand Foch. After the Treaty of Versailles, 1919).

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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Those are the RISKS involved. When people invest their money, that is a risk they take and should be aware of. I feel for people who lose their jobs, but it is NOT the responsibility of the taxpayer to keep businesses up and running. No way. Seriously, you seem to think that life should be free of risks and that jobs and good money should be a guarantee backed by the government.
    Now you're going hard in the CON paint. You remind me of a tired old joke- a recession is your neighbor out of a job, a depression is YOU getting a pink slip-

    Actually it is the duty of our Government to maintain order and domestic tranquility. Otherwise why have any rules or regulations? Why have the FDIC guarantee bank accounts from fraud and robbery? Why have a police force? Life does have risks- every man for himself!

    Of course there will always be risks, SOCIETY works to minimize those risks and keep innocent people from harm.

    But seriously, do you think TARP made life free of risks???? Now when it comes to jobs what do CONs always claim- their leadership creates jobs.... so yeah i'd say it is the Gubmint's job to ensure an even playing field, a fair labor market, safe working conditions, honest business practices and jobs for those willing to work... (ever read the GOP party platform????)

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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

    some people really like watching " war " on tv.because they know they wont be attacked with mustard gas,pepper gas,onion gas etcç..
    "Sovereignty is not given, it is taken." ATATÜRK

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