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Thread: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance [W:246, 565, *656*]

  1. #1011
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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

    Quote Originally Posted by APACHERAT View Post
    What is this, no "You're making **** up" ?



    Iraq crisis: is ISIS part of al-Qaeda?

    How Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi challenged Ayman al-Zawahiri and, under his leadership, ISIS became a separate al-Qaeda faction


    >" The sudden rise of ISIS the Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham is the result of a crisis in the worldwide jihadist movement that has set the two most powerful heirs to the mantle of Osama bin Laden at loggerheads and led to the group's formal split from al-Qaeda..."<

    Continue -> Iraq crisis: is ISIS part of al-Qaeda? - Telegraph

    Al Qaeda Splinter Group ISIS Marches Towards Iraq's Biggest Oil Refinery

    The Economist explains: What ISIS, an al-Qaeda affiliate in Syria, really wants | The Economist
    They're splintered off from alQaeda, but aren't part of the organization. It's right in your quote. "Led to the group's formal split from al-Qaeda "

    I notice you didn't answer the direct question. How many more American lives do we sacrifice for a place that is unwilling or unable to overcome sectarianism?


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

  2. #1012
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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
    That is an opinion and Zakaria is entitled to it, the real issue however is the lack of respect for Obama and that is why the status of forces agreement was not properly negotiated. Obama had his opinion on Iraq and did nothing to work with the govt. of Iraq to maintain the gains generated and that is the issue. You want to buy what Zakaria says and ignore the reality on the ground.

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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    On behalf of all the military families who's children will not die or be maimed in another useless conflict in Iraq I want to express my admiration for this President.
    Of course you do and of course that brings those soldiers back, doesn't it? That region is vital to this country and you your short term ideology is the dangerous one. You didn't like the Iraq War but the real tribute to those who die would have been a stable Iraq and Obama blew it

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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    That is an opinion and Zakaria is entitled to it, the real issue however is the lack of respect for Obama and that is why the status of forces agreement was not properly negotiated. Obama had his opinion on Iraq and did nothing to work with the govt. of Iraq to maintain the gains generated and that is the issue. You want to buy what Zakaria says and ignore the reality on the ground.
    So you're willing to have more Americans die to increase Iran's influence.

    Ronald Reagan must be so proud....


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

  5. #1015
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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

    Quote Originally Posted by AJiveMan View Post
    Really, how many Iraqis did you survey.
    How many did you survey? When were you in Iraq? I had three family members there saying the same thing. It was the insurgents that didn't like the American troops not the majority of the Iraqi people and especially the kids.

  6. #1016
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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance [W:246, 565, *656*]

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    We aren't an empire "now" we have been an empire for some time. And a pretty good one, as they go, certainly a different kind. And yeah, we do create new realities.
    Well apparently your definition of "empire" (which by the way, I happen to call "the standard definition") and Karl Rove's definition are a little bit different.

    Ronald Suskind was at the White House for a meeting with Karl Rove.

    He writes:

    In the summer of 2002, after I had written an article in Esquire that the White House didn't like about Bush's former communications director, Karen Hughes, I had a meeting with a senior adviser* to Bush. He expressed the White House's displeasure, and then he told me something that at the time I didn't fully comprehend -- but which I now believe gets to the very heart of the Bush presidency.

    The aide said that guys like me were ''in what we call the reality-based community,'' which he defined as people who ''believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality.'' I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off. ''That's not the way the world really works anymore,'' he continued. ''We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality -- judiciously, as you will -- we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.''
    (*later revealed as Rove)

    If you wish to engage in political framing, I am not going to attempt to discourage or stop you because I accept that it's a futile endeavor.
    There's the reality based community and there's the faith-based community, the former's opinions are more often than not based on observations of facts in evidence, the latter's are based on faith, assumption and ideological dogma.

    Most nations become empires through careful maneuvering of well placed resources, assets, education and skill managed through carefully crafted projections of power.
    They are able to do this because they choose to adhere to wisdom gained from their position in the reality based community.
    One might say that the ancient Romans learned the best lessons on democracy from the ancient Greeks. This would be an example of functioning in the reality based community. This is the type of thinking that allowed Rome to become an empire.

    Over time however, the Romans lost their connections to reality based thinking and began to function on faith, assumption and ideological dogma.
    The lesson here is that all empires eventually collapse, as over ten thousand years of history proves, and it is often because of the same mistakes made again and again, by arrogant people who act as though belief trumps fact.
    If I didn't respond to your diatribe, it's possible you may have
    engaged in revisionism or broad sweeping generalizations.
    I don't have time for either, and you're probably on my IGNORE list.

  7. #1017
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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Like it or not, we went into Iraq, over 4,000 Americans died, the surge FINALLY brought the numbers up in country to the PROFESSIONAL military men's estimate YEARS after they had any chance of 'winning'. Huge bribes were paid to Sunni leaders and a truce was haltingly observed. BushII then announced the draw down, the year we would leave, and then scurried out the back door leaving it to others to finish the clean-up.

    The Iraqi government didn't want to extend the SoFA and that was that.

    Now when it comes to speaking for vets, I speak for myself and wife, coz we R Juan.... no need to second party that, I did my time in the slime.

    Allow me to express my disgust at those who stayed behind, but wish to speak on behalf of those who did go into the **** (my wife is a vet and she DAMN sure doesn't try that crap)

    BushII didn't win a damn thing. What increase of danger there is is a DIRECT result of the Bush hubris before during and after the Invasion. Saddam was a baaaaad man, but you can't swing a dead cat around that part of the world and not hit a baaaad man (some, our dear friends and allies)

    But BushII DAMN sure destabilized the region with ZERO plan to fix it.

    AMERICA has ZERO desire to 'go back in'. Iraq is as much a nation as Yugoslavia was. Our dear friends and allies, the Saudis, DAMN sure should have done far more to stabilize the Sunni side of the violence. Where are the Kurds in all of this?????

    When BushII decided to hit Iraq with 'Shock and Awe' it was only a matter of time before we would feel shock and awwwww....
    Again, your opinion is just that an opinion from someone who didn't like the war and who is so naive that they don't believe what is happening there now is going to affect them. Your short term thinking and lack of understanding of the broad picture is part of the problem. Saying your sorry in the future isn't going to change the reality of what is happening now. You buy the liberal spin regarding the Status of Forces agreement and that spin is false. It was Obama arrogance and failed leadership that is leading to the results we see on the ground now. Too bad progressives like you never admit when you are wrong but when proven wrong it is way too late.

  8. #1018
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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

    Quote Originally Posted by dad2three2001 View Post
    Got it, we should listen to those that lied US into war the first time as they MIGHT be correct today? lol
    No, obviously you don't get it. But I suppose clinging to the words of those who continue to lie about the facts is a good idea for some. Par for the course I've come to understand.

  9. #1019
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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    So you're willing to have more Americans die to increase Iran's influence.

    Ronald Reagan must be so proud....
    It isn't Americans influence that is the problem, it is Obama's arrogance, hatred of Iraq that is being spewed here as well, and total lack of leadership on his part. Obama is certainly no Reagan

  10. #1020
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    Re: Iraq insurgents take Saddam's home town in lightning advance

    Quote Originally Posted by AJiveMan View Post
    Really, how many Iraqis did you survey.
    They were glad we were there.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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