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Thread: House Majority Leader Cantor loses GOP primary to tea-party challenger[W:243:247:349]

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    Re: Eric Cantor is Gone

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    No, a violation of rights would be deciding who gets to vote and who doesn't. If a communist wants to vote in a Republican primary, who the hell are you to say they can't?
    Seems obvious!

    I would fully support either party's efforts to set the rules for their primaries and limit participation ONLY to registered party members. But until they do, I have every 'right' to express a preference in any primary I choose because the rules INVITE me to do so.

    Fact is Cantor made his own bed and has no one but himself to blame for his loss. If he treated democrats in his district poorly enough to get them off their rear ends to vote him out, and the rules allow it, maybe he should have reached out to them?

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    Re: Eric Cantor is Gone

    [QUOTE=ocean515;1063388577]
    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post


    Where should we meet?

    In fairness, it would seem that where you live, willingness to be invaded by foreign countries is part of the culture. Here, not so much.






    There is a much larger immigrant population in the USA than in most countries in Europe

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    Re: Eric Cantor is Gone

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    And that changes nothing. It still doesn't change the fact that anyone who puts in a vote has that vote counted...threfore no ACTUAL nullification is happening. One person votes, and that vote is tallied. Another person votes, and their vote is tallied. Neither vote "nullifies" the other.

    Hell, a better argument could probably be made that DENYING people the ability to vote in an election and voice their approval for one candidate over another simply based on their party identification could be the thing that's infringing upon their speech

    If you want to say you have a problem with the open primary notion or that it's a corruption of the system...fine, that's debatable. I would probably even agree with that to a certain degree. But you're trying to suggeset that:

    1. Their vote is nullified
    2. Their "speech" is being surpressed

    And factually those things are just not true. Disliking the process doesn't make them true.
    I respectfully disagree as well.

    To use a voting analogy, it would be like allowing non-union forces to have a vote in a union's internal election. And that's what a primary is supposed to be, and internal election by members of that party. It's why we register with a particular party in certain states that require that.

    In the states that allow an open primary, it should not be party primaries, it should be a first culling in the General Election, with those candidates of every party involved - an At-Large election which is what actually does occur in some states.

    If it's an internal party election, it should be just that, internal to the party, and not open to non-party members.

    If Virginia wants an open primary system, fine. It should also have it run as an At-Large election (even though party affiliation of the candidates is placed on the ballot). That way, if people want to vote FOR someone they can, however, it would prevent people from voting against someone of another party by voting FOR someone that they have no intention of voting for in the General Election. In other words, if a Democrat truly wanted to vote for a Republican in the General, they could also do so in the At-Large primary (I have never voted straight ticket in the General). But, if it's going to be a Party Primary, it should be only those of that party that vote.

    It is nullification, by the fact that those that do, may never intend to vote for the primary candidate again, thereby interfering with the process of choosing the candidate that those actually within the party want. It literally nullifies their vote, by making of no use or value the choice of members of the party to which the primary involves. That is the very definition of nullification.

    It is suppression - to end or stop by outside force. The very definition of suppression. The two, arguably, most valued rights in this country are our franchise and our freedom of speech (political speech being the most valued of this particular right). When people from another party, participate for the purpose of nullification as defined above, it is suppression of the rights of those in that party.

    I can keep restating it with different prose, but my opinion on this will not change. I may not be the most talented member here in my ability to be imaginative or well-spoken, but I do know right from wrong.

    I see your point. I truly do. And, I completely agree with you when it comes to the General Election or votes in an At-Large election. However, I'm referring strictly to what are supposed to be Party Primaries. Again, if any political affiliation can vote, all political affiliations should be on the ballot, and if only one party is represented on the ballot, only those of that party should be allowed to vote.

  4. #334
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    Re: Eric Cantor is Gone

    [QUOTE=ocean515;1063388577]
    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post


    Where should we meet?

    In fairness, it would seem that where you live, willingness to be invaded by foreign countries is part of the culture. Here, not so much
    .



    Explain why 13 percent of the USA's population is foreign-born, while in the EU that number is 9.5 percent.

    IOW- The USA has 3.5 percent more immigrants than the EU.

    It looks to me like it's the USA which is happy to be invaded by other people and cultures.

    Explain that to us. If you can.

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    Re: Eric Cantor is Gone

    Quote Originally Posted by azgreg View Post
    They just mentioned on the Indepents that Cantor might be able to run in the general election as an independent.
    Possibly, but for whatever reason that is rarely successful.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

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    Re: Eric Cantor is Gone

    This is an interesting thread. From a centrist's point-of-view it is amusing to watch the partisan "reasons" from both side why this happened.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

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    Re: Eric Cantor is Gone

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post




    Explain why 13 percent of the USA's population is foreign-born, while in the EU that number is 9.5 percent.

    IOW- The USA has 3.5 percent more immigrants than the EU.

    It looks to me like it's the USA which is happy to be invaded by other people and cultures.

    Explain that to us. If you can.
    I haven't caught the complete rundown of the amendment the House just voted down on immigration.
    Clearly, with 20 GOP primaries to go, establishment Republicans are quaking in their boots over doing anything constructive .
    Physics is Phun

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    Re: Eric Cantor is Gone

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    I haven't caught the complete rundown of the amendment the House just voted down on immigration.
    Clearly, with 20 GOP primaries to go, establishment Republicans are quaking in their boots over doing anything constructive .



    Right now there is zero chance of passing immigration reform this term and it doesn't look any better next term.

    Does anyone want to take a wild guess what that will do to GOP support (Or lack of support.) from Hispanics?

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    Re: Eric Cantor is Gone

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Seems obvious!

    I would fully support either party's efforts to set the rules for their primaries and limit participation ONLY to registered party members. But until they do, I have every 'right' to express a preference in any primary I choose because the rules INVITE me to do so.

    Fact is Cantor made his own bed and has no one but himself to blame for his loss. If he treated democrats in his district poorly enough to get them off their rear ends to vote him out, and the rules allow it, maybe he should have reached out to them?

    The interesting thing about the Democrat conspiracy theory that the polls were over run by Democrats is that they really just shot themselves in the foot if they did. Their is almost zero chance that the Democrat will win VA07, and their stunt effectively killed immigration reform.

    Whether or not it is warranted, everything Cantor was championing will now be viewed as election poison for the GOP candidates.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: Eric Cantor is Gone

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    How can it not at least be a First Amendment issue? The primary is where each party has its members choose who they wish to have represent them in the General Election. If the party's members voice is nullified by members of the other party, it is suppression of speech. Regardless of which party. The General Election is where each side has the opportunity to vote for their candidate and/or against the other candidate. What an open primary allows, is the other party to interfere with the franchise right and the First Amendment right of the other party's members.
    I am following your discussion with Zyph over the open primary issue.
    FYI, X factor has a thread up on this but I haven't checked it yet today.
    I also don't know if Virginia has a sore-loser's law, preventing Cantor from running as a 3rd-party in the fall.
    It should be illegal to do so. Regardless of party.
    As I often note, the 10th amendment is a pick-and-choose thing for GOPs .
    Physics is Phun

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