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Thread: Big Loss of Teachers Union in California

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    Big Loss of Teachers Union in California

    Huge loss: teachers unions in California case - POLITICO.com

    This case is a pretty big deal. Hope the movement spreads across the nation like a wild fire. Think the biggest is getting rid of statutory restrictions in firing d-bag teachers making extremely expensive and timely. The immediate dismissal of substandard teachers is a no brainer. The removal of the tenure system would help to prevent complacency in tenured teachers.

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    Re: Big Loss of Teachers Union in California

    Quote Originally Posted by Fishstyx View Post
    Huge loss: teachers unions in California case - POLITICO.com

    This case is a pretty big deal. Hope the movement spreads across the nation like a wild fire. Think the biggest is getting rid of statutory restrictions in firing d-bag teachers making extremely expensive and timely. The immediate dismissal of substandard teachers is a no brainer. The removal of the tenure system would help to prevent complacency in tenured teachers.
    Good. I think unions could be good, but more often than not they are more destructive.
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    Re: Big Loss of Teachers Union in California

    Quote Originally Posted by Fishstyx View Post
    Huge loss: teachers unions in California case - POLITICO.com

    This case is a pretty big deal. Hope the movement spreads across the nation like a wild fire. Think the biggest is getting rid of statutory restrictions in firing d-bag teachers making extremely expensive and timely. The immediate dismissal of substandard teachers is a no brainer. The removal of the tenure system would help to prevent complacency in tenured teachers.
    Tenure and and trial processes to fire teachers is the most idiotic thing ever. Teachers teachers should be hired and fired just like anyone else in the labor market. If anything public sector union contracts should be voted on by the tax payers during high turn out elections, not some piece of **** politician or suit who does not have the interests of the tax payers at mind.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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    Re: Big Loss of Teachers Union in California

    Quote Originally Posted by Fishstyx View Post
    Huge loss: teachers unions in California case - POLITICO.com

    This case is a pretty big deal. Hope the movement spreads across the nation like a wild fire. Think the biggest is getting rid of statutory restrictions in firing d-bag teachers making extremely expensive and timely. The immediate dismissal of substandard teachers is a no brainer. The removal of the tenure system would help to prevent complacency in tenured teachers.
    For ease in responding:

    ...Treu found that the statutes permit too many grossly incompetent teachers to remain in classrooms across the state — and found that those teachers shortchange their students by putting them months or years behind their peers in math and reading.

    He ruled that such a system violates the state constitution’s guarantee that all children receive “basic equality of educational opportunity.” In a blunt, unsparing 16-page opinion, Treu compared his ruling to the seminal federal desegregation case Brown v. Board of Education, decided 60 years ago last month. “The evidence is compelling. Indeed, it shocks the conscience,” Treu wrote.

    In adopting the language and legal framework of the civil rights movement, Treu gave a major boost to school reformers from both parties who have long argued that the current system dooms poor and minority students to inferior educations.

    He might also have put further strain on the already-shaky alliance between teachers unions and Democrats.

    In recent years, high-profile Democrats — up to and including President Barack Obama — have broken with their traditional union allies over issues such as charter schools, standardized testing and the feasibility of evaluating teachers by how well their students perform on standardized tests. But many other Democrats in state legislatures and Congress remain loyal to teachers unions. Those ties are especially strong in California, where the unions wield strong political influence. The ruling’s scorching finding that union policies violate students’ civil rights could put those longstanding loyalties to the test.

    Indeed, even before the verdict, members of the plaintiffs’ team were talking confidently about plans to present their evidence to California Gov. Jerry Brown, a close ally of the teachers unions, to prod him into joining the reformers’ side, at least on key issues such as teacher tenure.

    Reformers also plan to take the fight to other states, hoping the strong language of the ruling will prompt Democrats elsewhere to reconsider ties to teachers unions. They’re considering similar lawsuits in Connecticut, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Oregon and elsewhere. And they plan a relentless public relations campaign, backed by millions of dollars from reform-minded philanthropists, to bring moms, dads and voters of both parties to their side.

    Jim Finberg, a lawyer for both major California teachers unions, said he wasn’t worried by the ruling or the coming public relations juggernaut. The case, he said, was all about “busting the teachers union,” not supporting children. “People who really care about education will see through that,” he said. “The truth will out.”

    Randi Weingarten, president of the American Federation of Teachers, echoed those comments, accusing the plaintiffs of seeking to divide and conquer rather than support public schools. “The other side wanted a headline that reads ‘Students win, teachers lose,’ ” Weingarten said. “This is a sad day for public education.”

    But Education Secretary Arne Duncan signaled his support for the ongoing campaign to reform hiring and firing laws. He noted that “millions of young people in America … are disadvantaged by laws, practices and systems that fail to identify and support our best teachers and match them with our neediest students.” And he called the ruling “a mandate to fix these problems.”

    ...

    Though the ruling was couched as “preliminary,” there was nothing tentative about Treu’s opinion. He found “no dispute that there are a significant number of grossly ineffective teachers currently active in California classrooms” and that the legal system protects them by making it all but impossible for districts to fire even the worst teachers.
    He also expressed outrage at a system that shields veteran teachers from layoffs, regardless of their competence. “The logic of this position is unfathomable and therefore constitutionally unsupportable,” he wrote.
    What’s more, Treu added, evidence at trial showed that teacher protections embedded in California law disproportionately hurt black and Hispanic students, who are far more likely than their peers to be assigned truly bad teachers.

    The California Federation of Teachers and the California Teachers Association plan to appeal to the state Supreme Court. Treu decided the disputed laws should remain in place pending that appeal. He will also take both sides’ comment under advisement before finalizing his ruling within the month...

    More here:

    Read more: Huge loss: teachers unions in California case - POLITICO.com
    Let's hope is stands the challenge to the California SC.

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    Re: Big Loss of Teachers Union in California

    Quote Originally Posted by Fishstyx View Post
    Huge loss: teachers unions in California case - POLITICO.com

    This case is a pretty big deal. Hope the movement spreads across the nation like a wild fire. Think the biggest is getting rid of statutory restrictions in firing d-bag teachers making extremely expensive and timely. The immediate dismissal of substandard teachers is a no brainer. The removal of the tenure system would help to prevent complacency in tenured teachers.
    It is high time that we end all public employee unions. There is no reason that a public servant should not be held accountable to actually perform their assigned job as directed in an effetive manner. Unfiortunately, it seems that "better distribution" of good teachers is the "reform" plan rather than actually dismissing the underachievers. The current system is much like the Caltholic church deciding to simply move child molesters around instead of actually firing them and reporting their activiites to authorities.

    But Education Secretary Arne Duncan signaled his support for the ongoing campaign to reform hiring and firing laws. He noted that “millions of young people in America … are disadvantaged by laws, practices and systems that fail to identify and support our best teachers and match them with our neediest students.” And he called the ruling “a mandate to fix these problems.”

    The Education Department has been slowly drafting a plan to nudge states to better distribute effective teachers.

    Read more: Huge loss: teachers unions in California case - POLITICO.com
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Big Loss of Teachers Union in California

    Quote Originally Posted by azgreg View Post
    Good. I think unions could be good, but more often than not they are more destructive.
    Yeah, I mean look at how much worse working conditions have gotten since unions first formed.
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    Re: Big Loss of Teachers Union in California

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Tenure and and trial processes to fire teachers is the most idiotic thing ever. Teachers teachers should be hired and fired just like anyone else in the labor market. If anything public sector union contracts should be voted on by the tax payers during high turn out elections, not some piece of **** politician or suit who does not have the interests of the tax payers at mind.
    education shouldnt be a part of labor market
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    Re: Big Loss of Teachers Union in California

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Yeah, I mean look at how much worse working conditions have gotten since unions first formed.
    Safe working conditions have been codified. So if thats their only useful purpose, they're not necessary anymore. The union pendulum has swung way past the point of reason. Any objective observer can see it.

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    Re: Big Loss of Teachers Union in California

    Quote Originally Posted by Fishstyx View Post
    Safe working conditions have been codified. So if thats their only useful purpose, they're not necessary anymore. The union pendulum has swung way past the point of reason. Any objective observer can see it.
    It's been my experience that most of the people supporting public sector unions are (or were) members of same. Hardly impartial.

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    Re: Big Loss of Teachers Union in California

    Quote Originally Posted by Fishstyx View Post
    Safe working conditions have been codified. So if thats their only useful purpose, they're not necessary anymore. The union pendulum has swung way past the point of reason. Any objective observer can see it.
    I support doing away with tenure and being able to get rid of sub-par teachers, but, there are other things unions do and I dont support doing away with them entirely. Other than safe work places, unions and their contracts, ensure work is distributed fairly, work shifts arent changed arbitrarily, employees arent punished for non-cause, and these just name a few things.
    Last edited by Amandi; 06-10-14 at 07:17 PM. Reason: Correct spelling

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