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Thread: Big Loss of Teachers Union in California

  1. #61
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    Re: Big Loss of Teachers Union in California

    Quote Originally Posted by Carjosse View Post
    Actually, yes what if that teacher accused of slapping a student was innocent? They did not protect the member of their union for fear of being demonized and they paid the price. What about people who are innocent, do they not have the right to protection?
    So you're not commenting on the actual example I posted? Where the man admitted the allegations? Really?

    One out of every 57 doctors loses their license to practice medicine. One out of every 97 lawyers loses their law license. In New York City, from 2007 to 2010, only 88 teachers lost their jobs due to poor performance -- out of some 80,000 people. That's 1 in approximately 1,000. Sound right to you? Yeah, it probably does. But it sure as hell doesn't sound right to me.

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    Re: Big Loss of Teachers Union in California

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Same could be said of government, you advocating anarchy?
    You got advocating anarchy from that post? Really?

    I have CDO, it's like OCD but the letters are in alphabetical order like they should be.

  3. #63
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    Re: Big Loss of Teachers Union in California

    Quote Originally Posted by azgreg View Post
    You got advocating anarchy from that post? Really?

    Your general argument would support it. More harm than good in current incarnation, get rid of the lot. Same is true for government. Of course, what your argument glances over is that fundamentally there is a purpose and need. So instead of throwing the baby out with the bath water, it is best to restrict and control Unions so that they exist and perform the necessary duties.

    Duh.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: Big Loss of Teachers Union in California

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    So you're not commenting on the actual example I posted? Where the man admitted the allegations? Really?

    One out of every 57 doctors loses their license to practice medicine. One out of every 97 lawyers loses their law license. In New York City, from 2007 to 2010, only 88 teachers lost their jobs due to poor performance -- out of some 80,000 people. That's 1 in approximately 1,000. Sound right to you? Yeah, it probably does. But it sure as hell doesn't sound right to me.
    New York Teachers Paid To Do Nothing: 700 Of Them

    NEW YORK — Hundreds of New York City public school teachers accused of offenses ranging from insubordination to sexual misconduct are being paid their full salaries to sit around all day playing Scrabble, surfing the Internet or just staring at the wall, if that's what they want to do.

    Because their union contract makes it extremely difficult to fire them, the teachers have been banished by the school system to its "rubber rooms" _ off-campus office space where they wait months, even years, for their disciplinary hearings.

    The 700 or so teachers can practice yoga, work on their novels, paint portraits of their colleagues _ pretty much anything but school work. They have summer vacation just like their classroom colleagues and enjoy weekends and holidays through the school year.
    Yeah, we need more of this.
    I have CDO, it's like OCD but the letters are in alphabetical order like they should be.

  5. #65
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    Re: Big Loss of Teachers Union in California

    [
    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Why does it have to be one extreme or the other? Is there mo middle ground? I never said, nor did I imply, that there are no good companies. Of course there are. On the flip side, if you think that all companies are driven by your ideal goals you're sadly naive.
    My position is the middle ground. The only unions I think should be illegal would be the public sector. I would never advocate making private sector unions illegal. But at the same time, their membership should never be statutorily required either, automatically docked, etc. This way, the union has to truly be about the workers as they have to earn their members.

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    Educator Amandi's Avatar
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    Re: Big Loss of Teachers Union in California

    Quote Originally Posted by The Man View Post
    Teachers don't get overtime, they're salaried, not hourly. They do get extra compensation for extra activities like coaching, clubs, etc. They deserve that.

    They are salaried professionals. Schedules of salaried professionals can, and sometimes do fluctuate.
    (I will admit, my posts were about unions overall and not just teachers but I will try to answer just for teachers.) The union will make sure the fluctuation is do to necessity and not due to singling teachers out. There are lots of other non-safety factor working conditions that the union can help protect.

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    Re: Big Loss of Teachers Union in California

    Quote Originally Posted by Fishstyx View Post
    Sadly, there is a belief that none of this can be done without unions. Bottom line, good managers do this without everyday. And if you work somewhere where they don't and you're a good performer, go somewhere else.

    What you described is just as important for management as they want a productive work force. Unfairness is counter to producing that.
    Jobs arent that easy to come by and unions can help make sure working conditions become or stay good.

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    Re: Big Loss of Teachers Union in California

    Quote Originally Posted by Fishstyx View Post
    Huge loss: teachers unions in California case - POLITICO.com

    This case is a pretty big deal. Hope the movement spreads across the nation like a wild fire. Think the biggest is getting rid of statutory restrictions in firing d-bag teachers making extremely expensive and timely. The immediate dismissal of substandard teachers is a no brainer. The removal of the tenure system would help to prevent complacency in tenured teachers.
    i think tenure is pretty well retarded.

    i spent much of my middle through high school in cali,and then the average in that area was 30-45k a year,but considering san bernardino county area the cost of living was much lower.however even then one teacher used to gripe,because she spent alot of her own money on teaching aids and class supplies.she was my fifth grade history teacher.she would argue how pointless demanding high wages for teacher was pointless for any of them who wanted to teach,because their wages got higher,and class budgets got smaller,forcing any teacher dedicated to use their own money for the class.that ofcourse had to do alot with states constantly slashing school funds to save money,while at the same time america spends more on education than most first world countries,with less results.
    “[The metric system is the tool of the Devil! My car gets forty rods to the hogshead, and that’s the way I likes it!” – Abe “Grampa” Simpson”

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    Re: Big Loss of Teachers Union in California

    Quote Originally Posted by Fishstyx View Post
    So then there are no companies that do provide a good working environment without a unionized workforce? Bottom line, if you're good at what you do, you're an asset. If you're substandard or mediocre...well, make yourself better.

    Initially, there'd likely be little notice except people would see a pay bump as their union dues are no longer automatically deducted. Over time, there could very well be a reason to bring them back. The pendulum swings. Most people tend to forget but the 8 hour/day 40 hour/week work schedule wasn't brought to you by a union but by an owner of private company who saw that rested workers with good morale are more productive and produce in a higher quality.
    Please provide proof of the bolded. It was introduced by Robert Owen, not as a business owner but as a reformer; and it was the unions that got it accepted.

    Eight-hour day - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    The Origin of the 8-Hour Work Day and Why We Should Rethink It
    AccuConference | Who invented the eight-hour workday?

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    Re: Big Loss of Teachers Union in California

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Yes, we can. Who says it's the union's responsibility to try to save the job of a jerk? Who says that?? When a teacher's union decides to defend a teacher who has been accused of sexual abuse, it's made a morally repugnant choice. When it decides to defend a teacher who slaps a student? It's made a morally repugnant choice.

    You think this makes sense?

    One year on the job, 13 years in rubber room earns perv teacher $1M | New York Post

    This is one of thousands.
    Unions should look at the facts of a case too and if the person is guilty should just make sure the reprocusions match the infraction. I am not saying this is happening but what should happen. I dont think doing away with unions is the answer though.

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