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Thread: Big Loss of Teachers Union in California

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    Re: Big Loss of Teachers Union in California

    Quote Originally Posted by The Man View Post
    Public school teachers, public sector employees in general are our paid workers. Who said teaching is easy? I certainly didn't. I know that teaching isn't easy.
    if you knew you wouldnt call them paid worker.


    tell me how you know..
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    Re: Big Loss of Teachers Union in California

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Ah, the standard Libertarian Utopian Fantasyland... if it isn't to your liking just go somewhere else. After all, good jobs are ripe for the picking, we just have to reach to the lowest branch and pick one.
    So then there are no companies that do provide a good working environment without a unionized workforce? Bottom line, if you're good at what you do, you're an asset. If you're substandard or mediocre...well, make yourself better.

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Unions have indeed gone way beyond their legitimate purpose, but I believe that nobody would like the results if they were to go away completely. The domino-effect would not be good.
    Initially, there'd likely be little notice except people would see a pay bump as their union dues are no longer automatically deducted. Over time, there could very well be a reason to bring them back. The pendulum swings. Most people tend to forget but the 8 hour/day 40 hour/week work schedule wasn't brought to you by a union but by an owner of private company who saw that rested workers with good morale are more productive and produce in a higher quality.

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    Re: Big Loss of Teachers Union in California

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Not I. I have never been a public employee (excepting military service). I disagree with the premise simply because not even government employees should be treated as second-class citizens. In America we have the right to organize. There is no "America Jr", nor should there be.
    So you're fine with the military being second-class citizens, then?

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    Re: Big Loss of Teachers Union in California

    Quote Originally Posted by Fishstyx View Post
    So then there are no companies that do provide a good working environment without a unionized workforce? Bottom line, if you're good at what you do, you're an asset. If you're substandard or mediocre...well, make yourself better.



    Initially, there'd likely be little notice except people would see a pay bump as their union dues are no longer automatically deducted. Over time, there could very well be a reason to bring them back. The pendulum swings. Most people tend to forget but the 8 hour/day 40 hour/week work schedule wasn't brought to you by a union but by an owner of private company who saw that rested workers with good morale are more productive and produce in a higher quality.
    Why does it have to be one extreme or the other? Is there mo middle ground? I never said, nor did I imply, that there are no good companies. Of course there are. On the flip side, if you think that all companies are driven by your ideal goals you're sadly naive.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

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    Re: Big Loss of Teachers Union in California

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    So you're fine with the military being second-class citizens, then?
    I know you're poking fun, and that's cool, but to give a serious answer... as much as I am fine with public sector unions, I would not be willing to extend that to the military.

    Is that inconsistent or hypocritical? Meh, maybe... probably.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

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    Re: Big Loss of Teachers Union in California

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    I know you're poking fun, and that's cool, but to give a serious answer... as much as I am fine with public sector unions, I would not be willing to extend that to the military.

    Is that inconsistent or hypocritical? Meh, maybe... probably.
    Made ya' think. Glad of that.

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    Re: Big Loss of Teachers Union in California

    Unions for teachers are needed, what keep hearing int he news is unions doing their jobs. The unions are there to protect teachers no matter what. If a teacher is wrongfully fired or suspended like that teacher who showed a video with blackface to a history class, the union's job is to protect that teacher. More often than not though you hear about the teacher's who did something wrong and the union is protecting them, the union is demonized for just doing their job. The unions are doing their job, I am not saying that the system is perfect and doesn't need reform but you can't demonize the union for doing what it is suppose to do.

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    Re: Big Loss of Teachers Union in California

    Quote Originally Posted by azgreg View Post
    Good. I think unions could be good, but more often than not they are more destructive.
    Same could be said of government, you advocating anarchy?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Big Loss of Teachers Union in California

    Quote Originally Posted by Carjosse View Post
    Unions for teachers are needed, what keep hearing int he news is unions doing their jobs. The unions are there to protect teachers no matter what. If a teacher is wrongfully fired or suspended like that teacher who showed a video with blackface to a history class, the union's job is to protect that teacher. More often than not though you hear about the teacher's who did something wrong and the union is protecting them, the union is demonized for just doing their job. The unions are doing their job, I am not saying that the system is perfect and doesn't need reform but you can't demonize the union for doing what it is suppose to do.
    Yes, we can. Who says it's the union's responsibility to try to save the job of a jerk? Who says that?? When a teacher's union decides to defend a teacher who has been accused of sexual abuse, it's made a morally repugnant choice. When it decides to defend a teacher who slaps a student? It's made a morally repugnant choice.

    You think this makes sense?

    He worked just one year as a full-time teacher in New York. But he has collected nearly $1 million for 13 years for doing almost nothing.

    Aryeh Eller, 46, a former music teacher at Hillcrest HS in Queens, is the longest-sitting “rubber room” teacher in the city. He was yanked from the classroom in 1999 and confessed to repeated sexual harassment of female students, according to a 2000 investigative report.

    But a hearing officer who decides whether tenured teachers can be fired dismissed the case, ruling that Eller wasn’t told his rights. The Department of Education, considering him unfit for teaching, put him in a holding room for a decade.
    One year on the job, 13 years in rubber room earns perv teacher $1M | New York Post

    This is one of thousands.

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    Re: Big Loss of Teachers Union in California

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Yes, we can. Who says it's the union's responsibility to try to save the job of a jerk? Who says that?? When a teacher's union decides to defend a teacher who has been accused of sexual abuse, it's made a morally repugnant choice. When it decides to defend a teacher who slaps a student? It's made a morally repugnant choice.

    You think this makes sense?
    Actually, yes what if that teacher accused of slapping a student was innocent? They did not protect the member of their union for fear of being demonized and they paid the price. What about people who are innocent, do they not have the right to protection?

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