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Thread: Big Loss of Teachers Union in California

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    Re: Big Loss of Teachers Union in California

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    Oh, absolutely! I've worked with various public employee unions and although anecdotal, my experience has been that the unions know that unlike private industry, there is no chance that the city, county or municipality will close its doors via bankruptcy, because the public entity can simply raise taxes to acquire the necessary revenue to meet union demands. The taxpayers, unlike consumers who can choose to purchase from competitors when union demands create soaring product prices, are held captive, their wallets raped, and they literally have no say whatsoever about it.

    Public employee unions should be illegal nation wide.
    Public employee unions throughout the US made many concessions and gave back a lot of pay and benefits during the last economic downturn. Government is not powerless when they negotiate or that wouldn't have happened. Voters elect local Boards of Education and they are responsible for approving contracts, not the unions. If you think your local Board is not doing enough, elect a new board. Some cities and school districts have gone bankrupt and defaulted on the pensions promised to their retired workers. Taxpayers are not powerless in public employee labor negotiations.

    Without unions, every individual teacher would be up against an army of lawyers, labor negotiators and administrators without any support.

    The right to protest, organize and petition is guaranteed to everyone in the first amendment.

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    Re: Big Loss of Teachers Union in California

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Unions in other countries are not as contentious as unions here in the United States. In other countries, unions work with management toward a common goal -- a balance between the needs/wants of employees and the health of a company. Not so in the U.S.

    I don't have a problem with private sector unions. Worker demand is naturally limited by the profitability of a company and its ability to pay. In the public sector, there's no bottom to the well. Taxpayers are not represented by those negotiating with the workers. The negotiators are bought and paid for (in one way or another) by, generally, Democrats who use them as foot soldiers and automatic votes.

    The press does a piss-poor job of reporting on negotiations. But an excellent job of pandering to the public sector union interests. Although we're talking about public sector employees, salaries are a carefully guarded secret, as are the full cost of benefits. Public sector employees often have an artificially low starting salary to help garner public support. Increases are, again, carefully guarded secrets.

    As taxpayers, we desperately need sunshine on the process.
    The difference in worker management relations in places like Germany is mostly in the more respectful and inclusive attitudes of management, not with the unions. That is why Volkswagen wanted a union in their plant in the USA. Public employee salaries of individuals is kept confidential, but the salary ranges and benefits for every civil service position is publicly available. (at least in my state)

    My local paper and most local media was very critical of the union during the last major public employee strike, and we are not a conservative community.

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    Re: Big Loss of Teachers Union in California

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    Public employee unions throughout the US made many concessions and gave back a lot of pay and benefits during the last economic downturn. Government is not powerless when they negotiate or that wouldn't have happened. Voters elect local Boards of Education and they are responsible for approving contracts, not the unions. If you think your local Board is not doing enough, elect a new board. Some cities and school districts have gone bankrupt and defaulted on the pensions promised to their retired workers. Taxpayers are not powerless in public employee labor negotiations.

    Without unions, every individual teacher would be up against an army of lawyers, labor negotiators and administrators without any support.

    The right to protest, organize and petition is guaranteed to everyone in the first amendment.
    There is no constitutional right to protest when public safety is put at risk. That's why police, fire, public works, etc., are not allowed to strike, because doing so would put the public safety at risk. So what do they do when they aren't given a big enough raise? They pull a "blue flu", then organize a community scare tactic to tell citizens that because the mean old City Manager won't give them the money they want, they won't be able to respond to traffic accidents, fires, rescue services, keep the water flowing to the taps... and of course, terrified citizens call City Hall and insist those poor underpaid workers get the money they're entitled to so citizens won't be murdered in their own homes during the crime wave.

    Then when the next year's taxes come due, guess who again calls City Hall to scream about the increase.

    Public employee unions should be illegal. That's my position.

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    Re: Big Loss of Teachers Union in California

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    We elect the Board of Education, which approves the contracts, and (in my state) directly vote on all increases to sales or property taxes, which are the taxes that fund education most significantly.
    In California, the Teacher's Union owns the Boards of Education and lots of other politicians, they directly buy votes with campaign funding in exchange for Board support for anything they want to do. There was a budget crisis a couple of years back where Sacramento had locked the legislature in session and they took breaks so that legislators could go out in the hall and consult their Union bosses.
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    Re: Big Loss of Teachers Union in California

    Here's the real solution to the issue of quality teachers:
    Like lawyers and doctors, teaching is important. Teachers should be paid well, but it should be a difficult position to obtain. Many intelligent and committed people are still not effective teachers. Teacher's colleges should screen out more potential teachers before they even come close to graduating. People with an apparent innate ability to teach should be encouraged to teach with the incentive of good salaries and prestige. Potential teachers should be selected and encouraged based on their ability to actually effectively communicate with students, not just for their academic abilities. They need to be observed in the classroom, not selected with multiple choice tests and responses to essay questions. As it is now, many people get into teaching because they have not been successful at anything else that they have tried.

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    Re: Big Loss of Teachers Union in California

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    Public employee unions throughout the US made many concessions and gave back a lot of pay and benefits during the last economic downturn. Government is not powerless when they negotiate or that wouldn't have happened. Voters elect local Boards of Education and they are responsible for approving contracts, not the unions. If you think your local Board is not doing enough, elect a new board. Some cities and school districts have gone bankrupt and defaulted on the pensions promised to their retired workers. Taxpayers are not powerless in public employee labor negotiations.

    Without unions, every individual teacher would be up against an army of lawyers, labor negotiators and administrators without any support.

    The right to protest, organize and petition is guaranteed to everyone in the first amendment.
    As it is, Parents are up against an army of lawyers, labor union activists/leaders, and administrators, as the demand accountability. All because of the Teachers Unions.

    The Teachers Union is California is one of the strongest in the state. The results should be the shame of every member.

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    Re: Big Loss of Teachers Union in California

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Yeah, I mean look at how much worse working conditions have gotten since unions first formed.
    This. This highlights the problem with doing things the wrong way. The state governments should have carried this water, and in many cases did. We screwed ourselves by rolling non-OEM agencies (unions) to do what we should have done through our state governments.

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    Re: Big Loss of Teachers Union in California

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    Oh, absolutely! I've worked with various public employee unions and although anecdotal, my experience has been that the unions know that unlike private industry, there is no chance that the city, county or municipality will close its doors via bankruptcy, because the public entity can simply raise taxes to acquire the necessary revenue to meet union demands. The taxpayers, unlike consumers who can choose to purchase from competitors when union demands create soaring product prices, are held captive, their wallets raped, and they literally have no say whatsoever about it.

    Public employee unions should be illegal nation wide.
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    Re: Big Loss of Teachers Union in California

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Tenure and and trial processes to fire teachers is the most idiotic thing ever. Teachers teachers should be hired and fired just like anyone else in the labor market. If anything public sector union contracts should be voted on by the tax payers during high turn out elections, not some piece of **** politician or suit who does not have the interests of the tax payers at mind.
    When it comes to union protection for teaching jobs, the union should be devoting its efforts to protecting teachers from being fired over personal vendettas, speaking out against unfair work conditions, stuff like that. Teachers unions should NOT EVER get in between a district and its evaluation of a teacher's ability to be effective in the classroom. School districts have well defined metrics that determine teacher performance and if they can't cut the mustard then they don't belong in the profession.

    If a teacher's union wants to get involved in that area they have to be willing to put aside everything except industry recognized performance assessments as a rule by which they determine if a teacher deserves to keep their job. Tenure has nothing to do with it.
    Tenure should relate to items like PAY.

    I'm not anti-union, but I do believe in the process of DECERTIFYING unions which clearly fail to serve the best interests of all parties involved and with too many teacher unions it seems like students and families aren't included in the list of interested parties.
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    Re: Big Loss of Teachers Union in California

    Good. Teachers should be employed and advance based on results: merit.

    and school boards should have more balls to stand up to parents.
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