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Report: Swastikas found in apartment of Las Vegas cop killers[W:251]

Moderator's Warning:
Cut out the baiting and other nonsense. Debate the OP.
 
HogWash said:
27 votes Nay in the Senate...20 democrats 7 Republicans. Byrd was a PoS. So was Thurmond. Had the Republicans not supported it practically enmasse, the bill would NOT have PASSED.

Byrd should have resigned from Congress and taken his GD KKK sheet with him. You democrats are hypocrites deluxe.
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Had NORTHERNERS not supported it, it would never have gotten out of committee. Northern Democrats supported the 1964 CRA at a higher rate than Northern Republicans did.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
Again, repeating for all needing:

You're just another one of the revisionists who pretends that the Dixiecrats of yesterday didn't become the Southern Republicans of today.
There are a lot of you out there, which means there are a lot of LIARS out there.
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Most of the Dixiecrats either died shortly after 1964, left the party (a la Thurmond) or got voted out of office by equally racist Southern Republicans.

The efforts to tar the modern Democratic Party (and, by extension, liberals as a whole) based on the sins of their predecessors is just plain dishonest.

Racism, in one form or another, exists everywhere. Boston, a liberal stronghold, is one of the most racist places I've ever been. Nobody's hands are clean. But there is a concerted effort on the part of many, many conservatives to paint racism as wholly the province of the left, which blatantly ignores 200 years of geographic differences and 50 years of party upheaval to accomplish.

Robert Byrd (who recanted) will be brought up in these arguments for the next two decades. Strom Thurmond (who didn't) will be ignored into perpetuity by those on the right who are desperate to absolve their chosen party of the sins of the Southern Strategy.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
How interesting that you left out Strom Thurmond.
And Byrd apologized. Thurmond didn't.



And actually, for the record, Byrd originally renounced his racist past in 1982 in the aftermath of a traffic accident in which his grandson was killed.
And actually, George Wallace ALSO renounced his racist views as well, and just like Byrd, he did so LONG before his death.
Byrd even said that he regretted voting AGAINST the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

You're just another one of the revisionists who pretends that the Dixiecrats of yesterday didn't become the Southern Republicans of today.
There are a lot of you out there, which means there are a lot of LIARS out there.

It's okay really, you guys are all dreaming of fighting the Civil War all over again.
I suspect that you will get the chance to experience defeat once again, too.
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No other Senator received a 100% approval on his voting record from the NAACP ...
Senator Byrd did.
 
Kobie said:
Had NORTHERNERS not supported it, it would never have gotten out of committee. Northern Democrats supported the 1964 CRA at a higher rate than Northern Republicans did.
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In fact, that was the prime REASON Dixiecrats turned red.
They felt BETRAYED by their Democrat brethren in the North, East and West.
It was the college kid Democrats in the East, West and North, idealistic as Hell and raised on tomes like "Black Like Me", "Guess Who's Coming to Dinner", authors like Richard Wright and all the other brave black writers who illuminated the Jim Crow era in stark, graphic terms.
And it didn't take much to spread the new awareness to their parents either.

And when Faubus and his pals started in on the schools it was seen nationally and INTERNATIONALLY for the first time. Democrats in the rest of the country had never seen it writ large that way before. And soon the WORLD saw it.
Make no mistake about it folks, even THE SOVIETS capitalized on the 16mm images of police dogs attacking black busriders and freedom marchers.
When Dick Gregory published his paperback book "Nigger" it was very nearly the last straw.

You cannot possibly pull the wool over people's eyes when they have seen it firsthand, when they have seen it in moving images and read the firsthand accounts in black and white on the printed page.
The young Democrats in the East, North and West were flat out horrified and DISGUSTED and that is when the REST of the Democratic Party SEVERED its connections to institutionalized racism in all its forms, leaving the Southern Dems ALONE in the cold.

Try as you might to pretend that Democrats everywhere are the original racists, we are closer to the truth than you will ever be.
We ACKNOWLEDGE our sordid past, we RECOGNIZE that the old Democrats looked the other way, we AGREE that the old Republicans believed in equality.

HOWEVER, when the Jim Crow South got treated to the disinfecting sunlight of network newsreel cameras, Democrats everywhere but in the South moved on and moved forward. I was there, I grew up in it, I can name all the names and point to all the places. You can fool the young and dumb ignoramuses of the newer generations but every time you try to, we will just pull out our endless shelves of non-fiction, dredge up the old newsreels, pull up our shirtsleeves so you can see the cigarette burns on our arms and the lash marks on our backs.

You fools can't get away with trying to rewrite history because history is written by the victors and, based on the earthquake in Virginia tonight, you've lost.
Your radical right wing Tea Party candidates will be annihilated this November.

The Mason Dixon Line keeps migrating a little further South every month and has been for six years now.
I suspect it is now somewhere South of Richmond and still sinking.

Revisionism will be exposed, repeatedly, unswervingly, endlessly, victoriously.
You'll NEVER get away with it.
 
Buck Ewer said:
No other Senator received a 100% approval on his voting record from the NAACP ...
Senator Byrd did.
Click to expand...

I'm certainly not one to go to bat for Robert Byrd, but he at least gave lip service (and voted accordingly) to being contrite for his actions as a young man.

The people who bring up Byrd and the Klan neglect to mention that he left that rancid organization in the early '50s. They like to act as if he was wearing a white hood on his deathbed.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
In fact, that was the prime REASON Dixiecrats turned red.
They felt BETRAYED by their Democrat brethren in the North, East and West.
It was the college kid Democrats in the East, West and North, idealistic as Hell and raised on tomes like "Black Like Me", "Guess Who's Coming to Dinner", authors like Richard Wright and all the other brave black writers who illuminated the Jim Crow era in stark, graphic terms.
And it didn't take much to spread the new awareness to their parents either.

And when Faubus and his pals started in on the schools it was seen nationally and INTERNATIONALLY for the first time. Democrats in the rest of the country had never seen it writ large that way before. And soon the WORLD saw it.
Make no mistake about it folks, even THE SOVIETS capitalized on the 16mm images of police dogs attacking black busriders and freedom marchers.
When Dick Gregory published his paperback book "Nigger" it was very nearly the last straw.

You cannot possibly pull the wool over people's eyes when they have seen it firsthand, when they have seen it in moving images and read the firsthand accounts in black and white on the printed page.
The young Democrats in the East, North and West were flat out horrified and DISGUSTED and that is when the REST of the Democratic Party SEVERED its connections to institutionalized racism in all its forms, leaving the Southern Dems ALONE in the cold.

Try as you might to pretend that Democrats everywhere are the original racists, we are closer to the truth than you will ever be.
We ACKNOWLEDGE our sordid past, we RECOGNIZE that the old Democrats looked the other way, we AGREE that the old Republicans believed in equality.

HOWEVER, when the Jim Crow South got treated to the disinfecting sunlight of network newsreel cameras, Democrats everywhere but in the South moved on and moved forward. I was there, I grew up in it, I can name all the names and point to all the places. You can fool the young and dumb ignoramuses of the newer generations but every time you try to, we will just pull out our endless shelves of non-fiction, dredge up the old newsreels, pull up our shirtsleeves so you can see the cigarette burns on our arms and the lash marks on our backs.

You fools can't get away with trying to rewrite history because history is written by the victors and, based on the earthquake in Virginia tonight, you've lost.
Your radical right wing Tea Party candidates will be annihilated this November.

The Mason Dixon Line keeps migrating a little further South every month and has been for six years now.
I suspect it is now somewhere South of Richmond and still sinking.

Revisionism will be exposed, repeatedly, unswervingly, endlessly, victoriously.
You'll NEVER get away with it.
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I read Black Like Me when I was 12. Didn't get much of it. Read it again when I was about 17. What a brilliant work.

If you're a sports fan, read Only The Ball Was White, in my opinion the best book on Negro League baseball ever written. It's an eye-popper.
 
Kobie said:
I'm certainly not one to go to bat for Robert Byrd, but he at least gave lip service (and voted accordingly) to being contrite for his actions as a young man.

The people who bring up Byrd and the Klan neglect to mention that he left that rancid organization in the early '50s. They like to act as if he was wearing a white hood on his deathbed.
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They don't just act like it, a couple of them just said it straight out two pages back :)
Selective memory.

Today's Tea Party faithful ARE blood relatives of the old Dixiecrats of yesteryear.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
They don't just act like it, a couple of them just said it straight out two pages back :)
Selective memory.

Today's Tea Party faithful ARE blood relatives of the old Dixiecrats of yesteryear.
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I won't go that far; sure, there's a few TP types who strike me as full-blooded racists, but again, they're largely a. geographically Southern, and b. facing small electorates. Most of the Tea Party darlings who don't fall into those categories don't strike me as particularly racist. Backwards on a ton of issues, mostly their rabid social conservatism (GAY IS THE NEW BLACK), hyper-religiousness and complete lack of empathy for anyone who is not them, but not racist, per se. Ignorant, sure.
 
Kobie said:
I read Black Like Me when I was 12. Didn't get much of it. Read it again when I was about 17. What a brilliant work.

If you're a sports fan, read Only The Ball Was White, in my opinion the best book on Negro League baseball ever written. It's an eye-popper.
Click to expand...

Just moved BACK to SoCal a year and a half ago from Mansfield TX, which is the hometown of BLM author John Howard Griffin. (lived there 10 years)
When his book came out in 1959 the Mayor of Mansfield, a KKK member, had a PARADE down Mansfield's Main Street featuring an effigy of John Howard Griffin being hanged by the neck. When the parade reached the corner of Main and Broad they BURNED Griffin in effigy.

The death threats forced Griffin to flee with his family to Mexico for almost four years.
When he returned he couldn't do business ANYWHERE in town without being run off and when he died NO cemetery would take him except "The Old Negro Cemetery" on the outskirts of town.

When I attempted to visit the grave the black church that owned the property politely explained that nobody was allowed back there and when I asked if I could interview anybody on the history of the area for a short documentary film piece they asked me why I wanted to stir up trouble, and they politely but firmly asked me to leave.
I asked them why and they replied that it was best if the whole thing was left alone, that they valued their brand new church building and didn't want to see anything happen to it.
Yes, they came right and said it, in no uncertain terms, without batting an eye.

BLM was a required reading assignment in our sixth grade class, along with "The Ground Is Our Table" (1966) by Steve Allen.
(Yes, THAT Steve Allen)
 
Kobie said:
I won't go that far; sure, there's a few TP types who strike me as full-blooded racists, but again, they're largely a. geographically Southern, and b. facing small electorates. Most of the Tea Party darlings who don't fall into those categories don't strike me as particularly racist. Backwards on a ton of issues, mostly their rabid social conservatism (GAY IS THE NEW BLACK), hyper-religiousness and complete lack of empathy for anyone who is not them, but not racist, per se. Ignorant, sure.
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I'm not "going that far" or going anywhere. There isn't any payoff for me to trace the lines the way they are going.
If the Tea Party had held faithful to their outrage at excess, they eventually would have found more than a little common ground with the likes of Occupy.
And that would have actually been GOOD FOR Occupy because sans any moderating influence from outside their bubble and lacking leadership, they instead became ripe for anarchist infiltration, much the same way the old Vietnam anti-war movement of the 60's became co-opted by CPUSA and the SWP.

Are ALL Tea Partiers racist? No of course not. Some are focused on strictly fiscal and constitutional matters but again, you find that the deeper you go, the more you encounter the folks who believe everything past the Tenth Amendment is invalid. That means the Fourteenth gets tossed, yes?

And then you're right back to where you started, not "wanting to go there" but finding yourself knee deep in it anyway.
So okay, maybe I should instead say "The old Dixiecrats of yesterday found a welcome in the Republican sweep of the South and a good many of those eventually became the Christian Right, Christian Reconstructionist right wing and the Tea Party of the South."

If I wanted a payoff of any kind it would simply be to continue exposing the ongoing revisionism.
I have no issues with admitting the foibles of the Left or the Liberals in the past, or even now.
What gets me is when someone on the other side sends their garbage over here and pretends it's ours.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
I'm not "going that far" or going anywhere. There isn't any payoff for me to trace the lines the way they are going.
If the Tea Party had held faithful to their outrage at excess, they eventually would have found more than a little common ground with the likes of Occupy.
And that would have actually been GOOD FOR Occupy because sans any moderating influence from outside their bubble and lacking leadership, they instead became ripe for anarchist infiltration, much the same way the old Vietnam anti-war movement of the 60's became co-opted by CPUSA and the SWP.

Are ALL Tea Partiers racist? No of course not. Some are focused on strictly fiscal and constitutional matters but again, you find that the deeper you go, the more you encounter the folks who believe everything past the Tenth Amendment is invalid. That means the Fourteenth gets tossed, yes?

And then you're right back to where you started, not "wanting to go there" but finding yourself knee deep in it anyway.
So okay, maybe I should instead say "The old Dixiecrats of yesterday found a welcome in the Republican sweep of the South and a good many of those eventually became the Christian Right, Christian Reconstructionist right wing and the Tea Party of the South."

If I wanted a payoff of any kind it would simply be to continue exposing the ongoing revisionism.
I have no issues with admitting the foibles of the Left or the Liberals in the past, or even now.
What gets me is when someone on the other side sends their garbage over here and pretends it's ours.
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I definitely agree with all that I bolded (I probably agree with more, but this is what stood out).

There's a bunch of strict constructionists who have fallen under the "Tea Party" banner who basically feel the Bill of Rights is almost like the Ten Commandments -- never to be changed, EVER. Which, of course, negates a lot of good things.

The Tea Party got co-opted by a Republican Party desperate to rebrand itself after 2008; the Occupy Wall Street movement got co-opted by the same dickskins who broke storefronts at the WTO in Seattle and other uprisings against the G7/G8/G20. Both were bastardized horribly from their original purpose.

And yes, there are far too many conservatives on this forum that attempt to attach the "left" label to anything they perceive as negative (be it racism, fascism, socialism, Nazism, basically any -ism that isn't capitalism or freedomism) and then use that to brand all liberals as "Label X" while branding all conservatives as "Label Awesome."

I had a "discussion" last week with a right-winger here on this very forum (I won't name names) who claimed that there is no such thing as right-wing totalitarianism or authoritarianism, simply because totalitarianism and authoritarianism are strictly left wing, ergo liberals are fascists, QED. The amount of intellectual dishonesty it takes to believe that is true is staggering.
 
Now, getting all the way BACK to the original point about swastikas.
To be very real about this, just finding swastikas really DOES NOT automatically mean that these were Neo Nazis for the simple reason that
in this day and age swastikas in the USA are almost meaningless to young foolish punks on a rampage except for the fact that they represent some all consuming
outlet for rage.

Dumb kids collect swastikas.
Dumb kids who fantasize that they are some sort of "new patriots" collect swastikas.
Dumb kids who believe that they are starting some kind of "revolution" collect swastikas.

If newer reports show a long internet history of these two having memberships in The National Alliance or Stormfront, and a
long long list of friends who spout neo-nazi skinhead rhetoric then we can draw the dotted line between them and national socialism but
for now it is more than enough that they clearly DID feel that they were aligned with the far right radical "patriot" movement. (which in my humble opinion has DESTROYED the actual meaning of the word at this point)
 
Kobie said:
I had a "discussion" last week with a right-winger here on this very forum (I won't name names) who claimed that there is no such thing as right-wing totalitarianism or authoritarianism, simply because totalitarianism and authoritarianism are strictly left wing, ergo liberals are fascists, QED. The amount of intellectual dishonesty it takes to believe that is true is staggering.
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No need to name names, I saw it live LOL.
 
Wiggen said:
No, it's factually correct and everybody knows it except Libertarians. Let me put it in more simple terms. Libs like government and would like it to be active in society. Cons want less government, and the less they want the more Con they are. Unless you are now telling me that Libertarians actually love government and want more of it.
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i could tell you how yo are wrong yet again, but we all know it won't change your mind.

i'm cool with letting you continue to be wrong.
 
Thrilla said:
i could tell you how yo are wrong yet again, but we all know it won't change your mind.

i'm cool with letting you continue to be wrong.
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Thanks. Your coolness means the world to me.:2razz:
 
Mr.Nick said:
"Twists history"

I'm not even a "conservative" but I damn well know my history and I know that the democrats were the "good ol' boys of the south" - you think most "old" racists of today are republicans or conservatives? think again - they're straight ticket democrat voters - at least in the south.

You're just living in denial.

And when I get back from the store I will elaborate more.
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Really? Guy, you're from Chicago. How much time have you spent in the South? I grew up in the Mississippi Delta - my direct family is buried in the cemetery at the local Southern Baptist church (out in the sticks, mind you) all the way back to the 1870's...I've got VERY deep roots there. I KNOW the South. You apparently don't, since you're living under the assumption that the racist Democratic of the 1960's who vastly outnumbered the Republicans (which is why they called it the Democratic "Solid South") are suddenly vastly outnumbered by the "not racist" Republicans.

FYI, a Pew poll in April of 2011 showed that 46% of Mississippi Republicans STILL thought that interracial marriage should be banned.

And the thirteenth amendment - you know, the one where slavery was abolished - was not officially ratified by the (very, very Republican) Mississippi government until 2013. Yes, that's LAST YEAR.

And if it's the Dems of the South that are SO racist against blacks...why is it that the blacks Down South vote 98% Democratic? Your claim would mean that they vote FOR racists.

Solid references available upon request.

Oh, and one more story. I've gone back home to the Delta many times since I left in 1981, because that's where my family lived - in Sunflower county which is 71% black. In the summer of 2012, when the presidential election was hot and heavy, I was talking to a black friend of mine named Eddie. I said, "Eddie, I'm driving around here, and I don't see any Obama stickers or signs anywhere. Why is that?" He looked back at me with sad, sad eyes and said, "Pete, you know why." And he was right - I did know why. The blacks of 71%-black Sunflower county did not dare post Obama signs on their cars or in their yards because if they did, they or their family members would soon lose their jobs. That's just the way it is.

It's easy for those who do not live Down South to make all kinds of assumptions about the way it is...but you can't know unless you've lived there for many years. By your claims, I know that either you haven't spent many years there...or you're making up crap.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
Again, repeating for all needing:

You're just another one of the revisionists who pretends that the Dixiecrats of yesterday didn't become the Southern Republicans of today.
There are a lot of you out there, which means there are a lot of LIARS out there.
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Again, you liberals are NOT revisionist. You people are just damn Liars with a CAPITAL L. There is NOTHING to REVISE. Those were predominately democrats that voted AGAINST the Civil Rights ACT of BOTH 1957 and 1964 . And had it not been for the Republican Party neither would have become LAW. Get over it.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
So you're still attempting to equate American liberals LIBERALS, DEMOCRATS - errrmmm, ANYONE WHO DISAGREES WITH THE GOP/TP with Hitler and the Third Reich, yes?
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Who said I was doing that? I am just trying to correct the mistaken notion that Fascist/Nazi = right-wing.

If not, how is this germaine to the discussion of the ongoing revisionism which is spreading like kudzu in the American dialogue today?
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The OP is the one who is trying to tack the Nazi label onto any and everything opposed to Democrats on the misrepresented basis of what a couple of unstable individuals did at a pizzeria. What is really funny is how people were like "Tea Party flag!" as though the Gadsden flag did not have hundreds of years of history in the United States.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
"Eddie, I'm driving around here, and I don't see any Obama stickers or signs anywhere. Why is that?" He looked back at me with sad, sad eyes and said, "Pete, you know why." And he was right - I did know why. The blacks of 71%-black Sunflower county did not dare post Obama signs on their cars or in their yards because if they did, they or their family members would soon lose their jobs.
Click to expand...

Ten years in Mansfield TX and I will tell you flat out that even a WHITE GUY putting an Obama sticker on their car or a sign in front of their house equaled taking your life in your hands. One neighbor (an elementary school teacher) DID put an Obama sign in her yard.
Her house got treated to a nice drive by. Cops counted 28 bullet holes in the garage door alone.
She's lucky they didn't toss a Molotov through the living room window.

Now imagine a BLACK man, it's just so ridiculously absurd that it should be funny, except these are people's lives we're talking about. So of course, it's NOT really funny.
 
HogWash said:
Again, you liberals are NOT revisionist. You people are just damn Liars with a CAPITAL L. There is NOTHING to REVISE. Those were predominately democrats that voted AGAINST the Civil Rights ACT of BOTH 1957 and 1964 . And had it not been for the Republican Party neither would have become LAW. Get over it.
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No, I will NOT get over it.
The facts on who voted for what were already posted.
The voting records of WHICH Democrats voted AGAINST the Civil Rights Act of 1964 were also already posted.
Southern Dems voted AGAINST, Northern, Eastern and Western Dems voted FOR.

And the historical documentation on turning the Dixiecrat South RED is a fact.
Each and every time you folks try pushing your garbage over here and calling it ours, I will push it right back.
I'll do it every day for the next twenty years if I have to.

We ADMIT the mistakes of the old Democratic Party, but we also point to the turning point in history where the tide changed.
That's not lying or revisionism, that's telling the truth.

So get mad, get pissed off, scream if you want.
It's not going to stop me or even slow me down, if anything it's going to make me more inspired and it's going to get the thread more views.
 
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