Comparing uniformed military personnel to terrorists that surround themselves with innocents? That's hardly what I'd call an apples to apples comparison.
"We don't have to treat them like real prisoners of war because they're not real soldiers." A few months back I read Guderian's "Panzer Leader"...and the above excuse is what he and the other generals were told by Hitler on the eve of Operation Barbarossa.
We invaded Afghanistan.
When their countries of their origin don't even want the Gitmo guys back? I think their
Meh. What do you do with someone you don't dare release? Someone who's very likely to go off and kill innocent people? Aren't they typically incarcerated for life? Yeah, I'd like to see the military tribunals actually sentence them to life.
1. So what if the countries of their origin don't want them back? That is NOT our problem.
2. How about FIRST allowing them to at LEAST have a trial, and THEN...IF and ONLY if they are found guilty of a crime worthy of life imprisonment, sentence them to life...but if not, then they are sent HOME. Stop assuming guilt before a freaking trial. Deciding to imprison someone for life without even giving them a day in court is NOT the American way.
From time to time blood must be shed to water the tree of liberty, right? But if we start believing that we should imprison people for life without trial - which is what we're doing RIGHT NOW - what then? Is it a tree of liberty? Or tyranny?
No one's doing this to these countries. That's a straw man argument. In fact, we have left them to run and organize their own country as they
Riiiiiiight. I'm so sure that Iraq and Afghanistan both said, "hey, now that we're putting together a new government, why don't we draft a constitution? We've never had one before, so why not?"
Who do you think chose the initial leaders who were put in charge of putting together that new government? Where do you think those initial leaders and new government got the idea of governance under a constitution instead of by Qur'an? Are you really so naive as to think it was their idea, and not something we made happen? Are you really, truly that naive?
And in ANY case, we are STILL the occupying power. It does not matter what we do or don't do, the people there will see us as an occupying power who does not belong there...and it's bitter fruit that sticks in the craw of every Afghan man there to think that we're there telling them what to do...and even if we aren't telling them what to do, the men there will believe that we're doing exactly that.
Depends. If the guys that were being held were the most murderous scurge, I don't think anyone would raise arms to get them back. Do note, their countries of their origins don't even want them back. That's how much trouble these guys caused.
Including the 76 who are cleared to go home, whose only reason for not going home is because the GOP in the house won't allow funding for them to take a flight home?
Didn't seem like we were occupiers how our troops were greeted during the Iraq invasion.
And as time went on, as the insurgency grew, as the people there saw that their lives were NOT better than under Saddam (and for most people, to this day it's worse than under Saddam), they turned against us...quite understandably, since we were the ones who wrecked their national infrastructure.
But of course we're America, and we're always right, and we never ever ever do anything wrong, huh?
The fallacy here is the continued belief that it's a law enforcement situation, when it's already escalated to a military one. Even the FBI wouldn't be able to handle this situation, so it's a military situation. Well beyond law enforcement.
There's 76 people there who are cleared to go home RIGHT NOW. You, sir, are the one who's buying into a fallacy by assuming everyone there's as guilty as sin.
Just as long as it's not your Grandmother? I acknowledge that it is against the character of the nation, however, it would seem that it's the best choice of a variety of very bad choices. You know. Hard choices made by a president during difficult and ground breaking times.
Sorry, but my grandmother's not in Afghanistan. This is AMERICA, sir - we do NOT hold people indefinitely until they die without giving them a fair trial. We did not do this against anyone we've ever fought before - and we've fought FAR worse before.
You really should learn to let go of your fear. If these guys go home, yes, they may well attack Americans. They may well kill some American soldiers - dads, brothers, sons every one. But these detainees are NOT and will NEVER be a threat to America itself...and keeping them locked up forever in Gitmo without trial - in violation of EVERY civilian AND military tradition our nation has held dear - is a stain on our national honor.
And that stain grows every day those who are cleared to go home RIGHT NOW are forced to stay. That stain grows every day those who are not cleared are forced to remain without their day in court, whether that's a civilian or a military court. And that stain will NOT diminish, much less go away, as long as we refuse to uphold the judicial traditions that are part of what makes us America.
Maintaining our national honor entails hard choices, sir, choices that sometimes entails danger to our own - but honor, once lost, is very, very hard to regain. Maybe our national honor doesn't mean as much to you - but it does to me.
