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Thread: Kerry: 'Offensive' to leave an American behind

  1. #141
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    Re: Kerry: 'Offensive' to leave an American behind

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    Yes but releasing these guys instead of waiting for a complete surrender and withdrawal by us increases the chances of our guys getting killed. Oh and make no mistake about it Obama is surrendering to his radical Muslim buddies.


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    Re: Kerry: 'Offensive' to leave an American behind

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    If Romney was President, he would be getting props from GOPs for the Nobel Peace Prize for Bergdahl's release.
    I'm reminded of today's meeting between the Pope, Israel and the Palestinians.
    Seems Israel's been okay trading over 1,000 Palestinians in the past, and the GOP got lots of love from Netanyahu in the 2012 election .
    you have no proof of that.

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    Re: Kerry: 'Offensive' to leave an American behind

    Quote Originally Posted by Texmex View Post
    I thought a person was innocent until proven guilty in a court of law?
    Deserter Bergdahl will be subject to a court martial....not civil court.

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    Re: Kerry: 'Offensive' to leave an American behind

    Quote Originally Posted by ObamacareFail View Post
    Deserter Bergdahl will be subject to a court martial....not civil court.
    Good. If he's guilty he should be punished accordingly.

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    Re: Kerry: 'Offensive' to leave an American behind

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    Comparing uniformed military personnel to terrorists that surround themselves with innocents? That's hardly what I'd call an apples to apples comparison.
    You really should learn a bit more about WWII, then...because there were tens of thousands of partisans in that war on either front. Partisans would not wear uniforms, but they were crucial for the war effort. In fact, thousands of the partisans who stayed in the Pripyat marshes were Soviet soldiers who escaped capture by the advancing Wehrmacht.

    Again, a terrorist is not defined by a uniform or the lack thereof. The Sunni army advancing on Baghdad right now is in every way an army...except that they don't have uniforms.

    When their countries of their origin don't even want the Gitmo guys back? I think their
    Doesn't matter - they're cleared to leave, and there's no good reason to keep spending our tax dollars on them.

    Meh. What do you do with someone you don't dare release? Someone who's very likely to go off and kill innocent people? Aren't they typically incarcerated for life? Yeah, I'd like to see the military tribunals actually sentence them to life.
    And what if we cannot PROVE that they are guilty? Or are you of the opinion that it doesn't matter whether or not they're guilty, that we should just imprison them for life anyway? Is this the kind of America we want to see?

    No one's doing this to these countries. That's a straw man argument. In fact, we have left them to run and organize their own country as they
    AFTER we invaded them and destroyed their national infrastructure. Oh, wait, I forgot - only Americans are ever patriotic, and anybody who gets invaded by America should just smile and be grateful even when their family or friends have been killed....

    Depends. If the guys that were being held were the most murderous scurge, I don't think anyone would raise arms to get them back. Do note, their countries of their origins don't even want them back. That's how much trouble these guys caused.
    Doesn't matter. We are holding them WITHOUT TRIAL. That, sir, is wrong - it goes against everything America has eve stood for.

    Didn't seem like we were occupiers how our troops were greeted during the Iraq invasion.
    Yes, and when they started to see what a mess we made of things by destroying their national infrastructure, how they no longer had reliable electricity and water like they did under Saddam, how their streets were no longer safe as they (usually) were under Saddam (as long as one didn't fall afoul of Saddam)...then they started turning against us and seeing us as occupiers of their nation.

    The fallacy here is the continued belief that it's a law enforcement situation, when it's already escalated to a military one. Even the FBI wouldn't be able to handle this situation, so it's a military situation. Well beyond law enforcement.
    Problem is, we're not even giving them a MILITARY trial...and the ones who are cleared to leave are NOT subject to trial.

    Just as long as it's not your Grandmother? I acknowledge that it is against the character of the nation, however, it would seem that it's the best choice of a variety of very bad choices. You know. Hard choices made by a president during difficult and ground breaking times.
    We know that when we release people - including those who committed murder, manslaughter, child abuse, rape, etc. - from jail, they MIGHT reoffend. Your logic would require that we would NEVER release anyone from jail.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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    Re: Kerry: 'Offensive' to leave an American behind

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    We know that when we release people - including those who committed murder, manslaughter, child abuse, rape, etc. - from jail, they MIGHT reoffend. Your logic would require that we would NEVER release anyone from jail.
    And if terrorists who have devoted their lives to the death of the Great Satan, and are willing to die for the advancement of fundamental Islam, "re-offend", what form do you think this might take?

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    Re: Kerry: 'Offensive' to leave an American behind (1 of 2)

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    You really should learn a bit more about WWII, then...because there were tens of thousands of partisans in that war on either front. Partisans would not wear uniforms, but they were crucial for the war effort. In fact, thousands of the partisans who stayed in the Pripyat marshes were Soviet soldiers who escaped capture by the advancing Wehrmacht.
    I don't see why you are introducing this history fact other than deflecting from your position that these Islamic terrorists are on the same legal footing as uniformed military personnel from a recognized nation. The terrorists are not uniformed military personnel nor from a recognized nation, cannot be defined as an 'army' as such, and are not entitled to be treated that way, nor do they behave in the same way.

    Show me military personnel that routinely strap explosives on their bodies and explode themselves in the midst of innocent civilians at market doing their shopping. Cast them as military, as an army, is foolish, misleading and completely incorrect and completely inaccurate, beyond an army being a group of armed people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Again, a terrorist is not defined by a uniform or the lack thereof. The Sunni army advancing on Baghdad right now is in every way an army...except that they don't have uniforms.
    See above.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Doesn't matter - they're cleared to leave, and there's no good reason to keep spending our tax dollars on them.

    And what if we cannot PROVE that they are guilty? Or are you of the opinion that it doesn't matter whether or not they're guilty, that we should just imprison them for life anyway? Is this the kind of America we want to see?

    AFTER we invaded them and destroyed their national infrastructure. Oh, wait, I forgot - only Americans are ever patriotic, and anybody who gets invaded by America should just smile and be grateful even when their family or friends have been killed....
    Just noise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Doesn't matter. We are holding them WITHOUT TRIAL. That, sir, is wrong - it goes against everything America has eve stood for.
    So the solution is to let them all go? The solution, last that I recall, was that they were going to receive military tribunals. Where does that stand, as I admit I've not heard anything on this recently.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Yes, and when they started to see what a mess we made of things by destroying their national infrastructure, how they no longer had reliable electricity and water like they did under Saddam, how their streets were no longer safe as they (usually) were under Saddam (as long as one didn't fall afoul of Saddam)...then they started turning against us and seeing us as occupiers of their nation.
    So you are saying that the people would have been better off under a repressive, oppressive, brutal regime?

    Iraq under Saddam Hussein was known for its severe violations of human rights. Secret police, torture, mass murder, rape, deportations, forced disappearances, assassinations, chemical warfare, and the destruction of southern Iraq's marshes were some of the methods the country's Ba'athist government used to maintain control. The total number of deaths related to torture and murder during this period are unknown. Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International issued regular reports of widespread imprisonment and torture.
    Human rights in Saddam Hussein's Iraq - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    A strange position to take.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Problem is, we're not even giving them a MILITARY trial...and the ones who are cleared to leave are NOT subject to trial.

    We know that when we release people - including those who committed murder, manslaughter, child abuse, rape, etc. - from jail, they MIGHT reoffend. Your logic would require that we would NEVER release anyone from jail.
    True. Recidivism rate of US felons is far higher than the recidivism rate experienced with the Gitmo guys. But that's only one part of the calculus that needs to be applied. The other is the number of people injured and maimed, as is the advantages the terrorists gain with the release, as is the greater prevalence of terrorist acts likely with their release vs. their continued detention.
    the Fix-is-in Bureau of Investigation

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    Re: Kerry: 'Offensive' to leave an American behind (2 of 2)

    The terrorists, being international in nature, as well as their unique low conflict level of engagement have forced the community of nations into a new, and previously undefined part of the international legal system, or so it would seem.

    In the international community, terrorism has no legally binding, criminal law definition.[1][2] Common definitions of terrorism refer only to those violent acts that are intended to create fear (terror); are perpetrated for a religious, political, or ideological goal; and deliberately target or disregard the safety of non-combatants (e.g., neutral military personnel or civilians). Some definitions now include acts of unlawful violence and war. The use of similar tactics by criminal organizations for protection rackets or to enforce a code of silence is usually not labeled terrorism, though these same actions may be labeled terrorism when done by a politically motivated group. Usage of the term has also been criticized for its frequent undue equating with Islamism or jihadism, while ignoring non-Islamic organizations or individuals.[3][4]
    Terrorism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    You are of course entitled to your opinion, regardless of how wrong, incorrect, unfounded, I might believe it to be. I really don't think that the terrorists, through their behaviors, methods and operations, really are entitled to the same legal standing nor the same respect as do military personnel.

    Having no internationally agreed upon legal definition for the terrorists, no internationally agreed upon legal standing for them or their crimes against humanity, seems a pretty weak foundation on which to base your argument, unless it's just an emotional appeal, such as your post exhibits.

    No, Gitmo is not the 'best' solution, but the international legal system doesn't have any better ones. An imperfect solution to new and difficult situation in an imperfect world. But frankly, it would seem to be the best that we have at this time.
    the Fix-is-in Bureau of Investigation

  9. #149
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    Re: Kerry: 'Offensive' to leave an American behind

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    If they are an illegal immigrant they are automatically guilty of a crime.
    Try finding, rounding up, and forcing 11 million illegals across the border. Good luck with that.

    Just look at it as another stimulus bill, or a few days holiday for the first family. That's $3 million a day.
    Oh, isn't THAT snappy - makes it all so, so reasonable to keep men imprisoned when they've already been told they can leave, and so, so, reasonable to keep spending our taxpayer dollars to keep them fed, sheltered, and clothed.

    And when the Obama family takes a vacation for a couple weeks, that's a national scandal...but when Dubya and his family stayed away from the White House for nearly a THIRD of the eight years he spent in office...*crickets*.

    But I get it - if the black guy in the white house does something other than die, it must be wrong because anything he does other than die must be part of a socialistnazicommunist plot to DESTROY America!!!!

    It's the mad Mullahs who are doing the radicalization of young men, the promise of 72 virgins being just one example, but it seems many Americans have been propagandized as well.
    And this excuses our keeping 79 men imprisoned after they've already been declared that they are okay to go home...how?
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  10. #150
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    Re: Kerry: 'Offensive' to leave an American behind

    Quote Originally Posted by Texmex View Post
    I thought a person was innocent until proven guilty in a court of law?
    Its pretty obvious to anyone with a brain.
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

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