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Thread: Kerry: 'Offensive' to leave an American behind

  1. #131
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    Re: Kerry: 'Offensive' to leave an American behind

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    Romney also said he wished he "could have been over there" with the guys, referring to the Vietnam soldiers, in 2010.
    It's one thing to dodge the draft like Clinton, it's entirely another to dodge like the chickenhawk cowards Romney, Quayle, Limbaugh, Nugent.
    Not to mention Bush and Cheney--quick to send others to die in a way they refused to serve.

    You seem to think this world is black-and-white Maenad.
    Ask Nixon when you see him how he liked being handed Vietnam by LBJ.
    Which Republicans went after Ford in 1975 and prevented further military aid to Vietnam?

    And who was responsible for the attack on the civilian airport yesterday in Karachi, Pakistan?
    Most people with reasoning skills understand that "bring it on" was the single dumbest thing Bush could have ever said .
    Good heavenly days! Why on earth would you think I will run in to Nixon? He doesn't frequent my neighborhood.

    Ask Obama about terrorist attacks the world over. I'm sure he has something to dish up on Pakistan. Islamic terrorism has gotten MUCH much worse on his watch.
    Redneck, hillbilly, fundie, Bible thumper, cracker, split tails, geezer, loon, xenophobe, islamaphobe, and homophobe are not words of tolerance.

  2. #132
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    Re: Kerry: 'Offensive' to leave an American behind

    OK MUBMNUT, here is the answer to your question:

    • In April 1965, Romney registered with the Selective Service but was not considered readily available for military service until December 1970. When he became eligible for military service in 1970, he drew a high number in the annual draft lottery and at that time no one drawing higher than 195 was drafted.
    Romney and the Military



    Eventually, like 16 million other young men of that era, Mr. Cheney sought deferments. By the time he turned 26 in January 1967 and was no longer eligible for the draft, he had asked for and received five deferments, four because he was a student and one for being a new father.
    Cheney&#39 - s Five Draft Deferments During the Vietnam Era Emerge as a Campaign Issue - NYTimes.com

    After receiving his degree, Quayle joined the Indiana Army National Guard and served from 1969–1975,
    Dan Quayle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Nugent has denied this claim, stating that he dodged the draft by enrolling at Oakland Community College to get a student deferment. However, his Selective Service classification record shows ratings of 1-Y and 4-F for 1969 and 1972 respectively, indicating ineligibility for military service under established physical, mental, or moral standards, rather than student deferment
    Ted Nugent - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    George W. Bush joined the 147th Fighter Interceptor Group of the Texas Air National Guard on May 27, 1968, during the Vietnam War
    George W. Bush military service controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    I'm not even mentioning Limbaugh because he isn't a politician. He is an entertainer.

    Every last one of these types of military service were perfectly acceptable. As were the college deferments, and getting married and having children. College deferments were routine, and many many people went to college to avoid the draft, that is how the colleges of the last 40 years became overrun with flaming liberal professors. They enrolled in school and stayed there until the war was over. Most of them were too hairy and nasty smelling to find a woman who would have a baby for them. The National Guard is also a perfectly acceptable means of military service, unless you would suggest that the Guard be disbanded during times of war, which would be patently stupid, since their function is different than the infantry to begin with. Just because someone wasn't in the infantry does not mean they didn't serve honorable in t he military.
    Last edited by Maenad; 06-14-14 at 09:57 AM.
    Redneck, hillbilly, fundie, Bible thumper, cracker, split tails, geezer, loon, xenophobe, islamaphobe, and homophobe are not words of tolerance.

  3. #133
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    Re: Kerry: 'Offensive' to leave an American behind

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Huh. People still think that swift boat stuff was true.
    Thank God for the Swift Boaters they were instrumental in getting the traitor defeated in 2008. God bless them for their service to this country.
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

  4. #134
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    Re: Kerry: 'Offensive' to leave an American behind

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    Thank God for the Swift Boaters they were instrumental in getting the traitor defeated in 2008. God bless them for their service to this country.
    You are aware, are you not, NP that the swift-boat liars have been completely discredited. They have admitted that they were lies and nothing more than a political smear to sway an election. They disgraced the military with their lies. Sad that you still support them in spite of this.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

  5. #135
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    Re: Kerry: 'Offensive' to leave an American behind

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    If Romney was President, he would be getting props from GOPs for the Nobel Peace Prize for Bergdahl's release.
    I'm reminded of today's meeting between the Pope, Israel and the Palestinians.
    Seems Israel's been okay trading over 1,000 Palestinians in the past, and the GOP got lots of love from Netanyahu in the 2012 election .
    Romney would have listened to the generals, the CIA, etc and would not have released such nasty characters for the sake of freeing a deserter.

  6. #136
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    Re: Kerry: 'Offensive' to leave an American behind

    Quote Originally Posted by ObamacareFail View Post
    Romney would have listened to the generals, the CIA, etc and would not have released such nasty characters for the sake of freeing a deserter.
    does that make all of our soldiers expendable?
    "If you can't stand the way this place is, Take yourself to higher places!"
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    Hilliary Clinton/Tim Kaine 2016

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    Re: Kerry: 'Offensive' to leave an American behind

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    You are aware, are you not, NP that the swift-boat liars have been completely discredited. They have admitted that they were lies and nothing more than a political smear to sway an election. They disgraced the military with their lies. Sad that you still support them in spite of this.
    So Kerry was in Cambodia in 68 and Kerry never testified before Congress (Winter Soldier), never met with the enemy (North Vietnamese government) in Paris, Kerry's first Purple Heart wasn't self inflicted, and that signature of Secretary of the Navy, John Lehman on Kerry's Navy discharge certificate is really John Lennon's.

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    Re: Kerry: 'Offensive' to leave an American behind

    "Dear Colonel Holmes,

    I am sorry to be so long in writing. I know I promised to let you hear from me at least once a month, and from now on you will, but I have had to have some time to think about this first letter. Almost daily since my return to England I have thought about writing, about what I want to and ought to say. First, I want to thank you, not just for saving me from the draft, but for being so kind and decent to me last summer, when I was as low as I have ever been. One thing which made the bond we struck in good faith somewhat palatable to me was my high regard for you personally. In retrospect, it seems that the admiration might not have been mutual had you known a little more about me, about my political beliefs and activities. At least you might have thought me more fit for the draft than for ROTC. Let me try to explain.

    As you know, I worked for two years in a very minor position on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. I did it for the experience and the salary, but also for the opportunity, however small, of working every day against a war I opposed and despised with a depth of feeling I had reserved solely for racism in America before Vietnam. I did not take the matter lightly, but studied it carefully, and there was a time when not many people had more information about Vietnam at hand than I did. I have written and spoken and marched against the war. One of the national organizers of the Vietnam Moratorium is a close friend of mine. After I left Arkansas last summer, I went to Washington to work in the national headquarters of the Moratorium, then to England to organize the Americans here for demonstrations here October 15th and November 16th.

    Interlocked with the war is the draft issue, which I did not begin to consider separately until early 1968. For a law seminar at Georgetown I wrote a paper on the legal arguments for and against allowing, within the Selective Service System, the classification of selective conscientious objection, for those opposed to participation in a particular war, not simply to, quote, participation in war in any form, end quote. From my work I came to believe that the draft system itself is illegitimate. No government really rooted in limited, parliamentary democracy should have the power to make its citizens fight and kill and die in a war they may oppose, a war which even possibly may be wrong, a war which, in any case, does not involve immediately the peace and freedom of the nation.

    The draft was justified in World War II because the life of the people collectively was at stake. Individuals had to fight if the nation was to survive, for the lives of their countrymen and their way of life. Vietnam is no such case. Nor was Korea, an example where, in my opinion, certain military action was justified but the draft was not, for the reasons stated above.

    Because of my opposition to the draft and the war, I am in great sympathy with those who are not willing to fight, kill, and maybe die for their country, that is, the particular policy of a particular government, right or wrong. Two of my friends at Oxford are conscientious objectors. I wrote a letter of recommendation for one of them to his Mississippi draft board, a letter which I am more proud of than anything else I wrote at Oxford last year. One of my roommates is a draft resister who is possibly under indictment and may never be able to go home again. He is one of the bravest, best men I know. His country needs men like him more than they know. That he is considered a criminal is an obscenity.

    The decision not to be a resister and the related subsequent decisions were the most difficult of my life. I decided to accept the draft in spite of my beliefs for one reason: to maintain my political viability within the system. For years I have worked to prepare myself for a political life characterized by both practical political ability and concern for rapid social progress. It is a life I still feel compelled to try to lead. I do not think our system of government is by definition corrupt, however dangerous and inadequate it has been in recent years (the society may be corrupt, but that is not the same thing, and if that is true we are all finished anyway).

    When the draft came, despite political convictions, I was having a hard time facing the prospect of fighting a war I had been fighting against, and that is why I contacted you. ROTC was the one way left in which I could possibly, but not positively, avoid both Vietnam and resistance. Going on with my education, even coming back to England, played no part in my decision to join ROTC. I am back here, and would have been at Arkansas Law School, because there is nothing else I can do. In fact, I would like to have been able to take a year out perhaps to teach in a small college or work on some community action project and in the process to decide whether to attend law school or graduate school and how to be putting what I have learned to use. But the particulars of my personal life are not nearly as important to me as the principles involved.

    After I signed the ROTC letter of intent I began to wonder whether the compromise I had made with myself was not more objectionable than the draft would have been, because I had no interest in the ROTC program in itself and all I seemed to have done was to protect myself from physical harm. Also, I began to think I had deceived you, not by lies - there were none - but by failing to tell you all the things I'm writing now. I doubt that I had the mental coherence to articulate them then. At that time, after we had made our agreement and you had sent my 1 - D deferment to my draft board, the anguish and loss of self-regard and self-confidence really set in. I hardly slept for weeks and kept going by eating compulsively and reading until exhaustion brought sleep. Finally on September 12th, I stayed up all night writing a letter to the chairman of my draft board, saying basically what is in the preceding paragraph, thanking him for trying to help me in a case where he really couldn't, and stating that I couldn't do the ROTC after all and would he please draft me as soon as possible.

    I never mailed the letter, but I did carry it on me every day until I got on the plane to return to England. I didn't mail the letter because I didn't see, in the end, how my going in the Army and maybe going to Vietnam would achieve anything except a feeling that I had punished myself and gotten what I deserved. So I came back to England to try to make something of this second year of my Rhodes scholarship.

    And that is where I am now, writing to you because you have been good to me and have a right to know what I think and feel. I am writing too in the hope that my telling this one story will help you to understand more clearly how so many fine people have come to find themselves still loving their country but loathing the military, to which you and other good men have devoted years, lifetimes, of the best service you could give. To many of us, it is no longer clear what is service and what is disservice, or if it is clear, the conclusion is likely to be illegal. Forgive the length of this letter. There was much to say. There is still a lot to be said, but it can wait. Please say hello to Colonel Jones for me. Merry Christmas.

    Sincerely,

    Bill Clinton"

    Bill Clinton's Draft Letter | The Clinton Years | FRONTLINE | PBS

  9. #139
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    Re: Kerry: 'Offensive' to leave an American behind

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    does that make all of our soldiers expendable?
    No...but I would not release top tier terrorists for the sake of a deserter.

  10. #140
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    Re: Kerry: 'Offensive' to leave an American behind

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    I don't have any problem leaving a deserter behind.
    I thought a person was innocent until proven guilty in a court of law?

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