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Thread: Kerry: 'Offensive' to leave an American behind

  1. #121
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    Re: Kerry: 'Offensive' to leave an American behind

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Why not do some research before you post? Taliban - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Do you understand the difference between the Taliban and Al Qeada?
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Kerry: 'Offensive' to leave an American behind

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    Comparing uniformed military personnel to terrorists that surround themselves with innocents? That's hardly what I'd call an apples to apples comparison.
    "We don't have to treat them like real prisoners of war because they're not real soldiers." A few months back I read Guderian's "Panzer Leader"...and the above excuse is what he and the other generals were told by Hitler on the eve of Operation Barbarossa.

    We invaded Afghanistan.

    When their countries of their origin don't even want the Gitmo guys back? I think their
    Meh. What do you do with someone you don't dare release? Someone who's very likely to go off and kill innocent people? Aren't they typically incarcerated for life? Yeah, I'd like to see the military tribunals actually sentence them to life.
    1. So what if the countries of their origin don't want them back? That is NOT our problem.

    2. How about FIRST allowing them to at LEAST have a trial, and THEN...IF and ONLY if they are found guilty of a crime worthy of life imprisonment, sentence them to life...but if not, then they are sent HOME. Stop assuming guilt before a freaking trial. Deciding to imprison someone for life without even giving them a day in court is NOT the American way.

    From time to time blood must be shed to water the tree of liberty, right? But if we start believing that we should imprison people for life without trial - which is what we're doing RIGHT NOW - what then? Is it a tree of liberty? Or tyranny?

    No one's doing this to these countries. That's a straw man argument. In fact, we have left them to run and organize their own country as they
    Riiiiiiight. I'm so sure that Iraq and Afghanistan both said, "hey, now that we're putting together a new government, why don't we draft a constitution? We've never had one before, so why not?"

    Who do you think chose the initial leaders who were put in charge of putting together that new government? Where do you think those initial leaders and new government got the idea of governance under a constitution instead of by Qur'an? Are you really so naive as to think it was their idea, and not something we made happen? Are you really, truly that naive?

    And in ANY case, we are STILL the occupying power. It does not matter what we do or don't do, the people there will see us as an occupying power who does not belong there...and it's bitter fruit that sticks in the craw of every Afghan man there to think that we're there telling them what to do...and even if we aren't telling them what to do, the men there will believe that we're doing exactly that.

    Depends. If the guys that were being held were the most murderous scurge, I don't think anyone would raise arms to get them back. Do note, their countries of their origins don't even want them back. That's how much trouble these guys caused.
    Including the 76 who are cleared to go home, whose only reason for not going home is because the GOP in the house won't allow funding for them to take a flight home?

    Didn't seem like we were occupiers how our troops were greeted during the Iraq invasion.
    And as time went on, as the insurgency grew, as the people there saw that their lives were NOT better than under Saddam (and for most people, to this day it's worse than under Saddam), they turned against us...quite understandably, since we were the ones who wrecked their national infrastructure.

    But of course we're America, and we're always right, and we never ever ever do anything wrong, huh?

    The fallacy here is the continued belief that it's a law enforcement situation, when it's already escalated to a military one. Even the FBI wouldn't be able to handle this situation, so it's a military situation. Well beyond law enforcement.
    There's 76 people there who are cleared to go home RIGHT NOW. You, sir, are the one who's buying into a fallacy by assuming everyone there's as guilty as sin.

    Just as long as it's not your Grandmother? I acknowledge that it is against the character of the nation, however, it would seem that it's the best choice of a variety of very bad choices. You know. Hard choices made by a president during difficult and ground breaking times.
    Sorry, but my grandmother's not in Afghanistan. This is AMERICA, sir - we do NOT hold people indefinitely until they die without giving them a fair trial. We did not do this against anyone we've ever fought before - and we've fought FAR worse before.

    You really should learn to let go of your fear. If these guys go home, yes, they may well attack Americans. They may well kill some American soldiers - dads, brothers, sons every one. But these detainees are NOT and will NEVER be a threat to America itself...and keeping them locked up forever in Gitmo without trial - in violation of EVERY civilian AND military tradition our nation has held dear - is a stain on our national honor.

    And that stain grows every day those who are cleared to go home RIGHT NOW are forced to stay. That stain grows every day those who are not cleared are forced to remain without their day in court, whether that's a civilian or a military court. And that stain will NOT diminish, much less go away, as long as we refuse to uphold the judicial traditions that are part of what makes us America.

    Maintaining our national honor entails hard choices, sir, choices that sometimes entails danger to our own - but honor, once lost, is very, very hard to regain. Maybe our national honor doesn't mean as much to you - but it does to me.
    “To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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    Re: Kerry: 'Offensive' to leave an American behind

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Do you understand the difference between the Taliban and Al Qeada?
    You must think you're talking to some goofy leftist here.

  4. #124
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    Re: Kerry: 'Offensive' to leave an American behind

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    You must think you're talking to some goofy leftist here.
    Not at all. From your post it appears that you believe that the Taliban and Al Qeada are either inter-changeable, the same thing or at least very similar. My simple question to you is, do you understand the key distinctions? If you did, you would understand that there is likely a moderate faction of the taliban that potentially within reach of our efforts.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Kerry: 'Offensive' to leave an American behind

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Not at all. From your post it appears that you believe that the Taliban and Al Qeada are either inter-changeable, the same thing or at least very similar. My simple question to you is, do you understand the key distinctions? If you did, you would understand that there is likely a moderate faction of the taliban that potentially within reach of our efforts.
    What do you know about the 'moderate' Taliban? How do they differ from the regular Taliban?

    Al Qaeda supports the Taliban, as well as many other terrorist groups throughout the world who do not refer to themselves as Al Qaeda but assume different names. Taliban - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    It's uncertain how many islamist terrorist groups there are throughout the world but it seems that Al Qaeda (The Base) has influence in all of them.

  6. #126
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    Re: Kerry: 'Offensive' to leave an American behind

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    What do you know about the 'moderate' Taliban? How do they differ from the regular Taliban?

    Al Qaeda supports the Taliban, as well as many other terrorist groups throughout the world who do not refer to themselves as Al Qaeda but assume different names. Taliban - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    It's uncertain how many islamist terrorist groups there are throughout the world but it seems that Al Qaeda (The Base) has influence in all of them.
    You obviously need to spend a little more time studying the middle east before you start trying to debate the politics of it. Al Qaeda is a radical organization that is not confined to a certain boundary. By and large the Taliban are confined to the southern region of Afghanistan. Not every person in the Taliban is a radical terrorist. There are absolutely some of the Taliban that are much more moderate than others. The reason that the US targeted the Taliban was because they were harboring Al Qaeda. As for your last line....that is just plain silly. What are you basing that generalization on? The fact that Al Qaeda is loosely translated to the "base"? LOl.....seriously?
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

  7. #127
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    Re: Kerry: 'Offensive' to leave an American behind

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    If Romney was President, he would be getting props from GOPs for the Nobel Peace Prize for Bergdahl's release.
    I'm reminded of today's meeting between the Pope, Israel and the Palestinians.
    Seems Israel's been okay trading over 1,000 Palestinians in the past, and the GOP got lots of love from Netanyahu in the 2012 election .
    Romney is a business man. He knows a stupid trade when he sees one. This was a stupid trade.
    Redneck, hillbilly, fundie, Bible thumper, cracker, split tails, geezer, loon, xenophobe, islamaphobe, and homophobe are not words of tolerance.

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    Re: Kerry: 'Offensive' to leave an American behind

    Quote Originally Posted by Maenad View Post
    Romney is a business man. He knows a stupid trade when he sees one. This was a stupid trade.
    Since these guys were going back to Afghanistan anyway, it seems like a highly lucrative trade.

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    Re: Kerry: 'Offensive' to leave an American behind

    Huh. People still think that swift boat stuff was true.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Kerry: 'Offensive' to leave an American behind

    Romney also said he wished he "could have been over there" with the guys, referring to the Vietnam soldiers, in 2010.
    It's one thing to dodge the draft like Clinton, it's entirely another to dodge like the chickenhawk cowards Romney, Quayle, Limbaugh, Nugent.
    Not to mention Bush and Cheney--quick to send others to die in a way they refused to serve.
    Quote Originally Posted by Maenad View Post
    Romney is a business man. He knows a stupid trade when he sees one. This was a stupid trade.
    You seem to think this world is black-and-white Maenad.
    Ask Nixon when you see him how he liked being handed Vietnam by LBJ.
    Which Republicans went after Ford in 1975 and prevented further military aid to Vietnam?

    And who was responsible for the attack on the civilian airport yesterday in Karachi, Pakistan?
    Most people with reasoning skills understand that "bring it on" was the single dumbest thing Bush could have ever said .
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