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Thread: Kerry: 'Offensive' to leave an American behind

  1. #111
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    Re: Kerry: 'Offensive' to leave an American behind

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    Are you certain that you are applying the rights of US citizens to the correct people?
    Any illegal immigrants who are accused of a crime are sent through our court system...and if they're convicted, they're jailed...and if they're declared not guilty, they're deported and set free.

    Why should the US tax payer be expected to foot the rather large legal and court bill for a group of international terrorists who want to kill them? Seems that this doesn't really pass the common sense test here.
    As if the bill for keeping Guantanamo open is chump change.

    Another thing y'all aren't getting is that the longer we keep them here - and there's only 155 of them, 79 of whom have ALREADY been cleared to go home (but the GOP won't allow funding for a freaking flight to send them home) - the more we outrage their friends and families, the more of them who are radicalized, who take up arms against us. It's just like with the torture -by doing the wrong thing, we create more terrorists than we keep imprisoned.
    “To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  2. #112
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    Re: Kerry: 'Offensive' to leave an American behind

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    Its funny you have a problems releasing the German prisoners after the war was over, but you have no problem releasing the murderous bastards terrorist while this war is still going on. How can you possbly defend that?
    Where did I say that I had a problem releasing the German prisoners? I NEVER said that. And FYI many of them were as murderous as anyone in the Taliban ever were.

    You did not read carefully. You ASSUMED you knew what I was saying, and your assumption was 180-off.

    You really should read a bit more carefully. Instead of ASSUMING - and as a Navy man you of all people should know better than to ASSUME - instead of assuming you have a clue as to what I think or believe, try READING what I actually write, without ASSUMING that I've gone off some kind of deep end.
    “To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  3. #113
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    Re: Kerry: 'Offensive' to leave an American behind

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Any illegal immigrants who are accused of a crime are sent through our court system...and if they're convicted, they're jailed...and if they're declared not guilty, they're deported and set free.
    That would be a different set of circumstances, wouldn't it? Crimes committed on our soil. Not so for the Gitmo guys.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    As if the bill for keeping Guantanamo open is chump change.
    As if it'd be a greater bargain to take them through an more expensive court proceeding? Face it. Gitmo is cheap in comparison.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Another thing y'all aren't getting is that the longer we keep them here - and there's only 155 of them, 79 of whom have ALREADY been cleared to go home (but the GOP won't allow funding for a freaking flight to send them home) - the more we outrage their friends and families, the more of them who are radicalized, who take up arms against us. It's just like with the torture -by doing the wrong thing, we create more terrorists than we keep imprisoned.
    This is often repeated, but haven't really heard or seen any real analysis, just that many take it as gospel.

    What if this isn't true? Then it'd be the case where matters are made much worse by releasing the hardest of the hard core back into the wild to rejoin the fight. Now I did see a summary of analysis that said somewhere around 30% of those released did in fact rejoin the fight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Actually, there's exactly 155. That's all that's left...76 of whom the US has already approved for transfer to home or third countries but remain at Guantanamo.

    So that's a whopping 79 additional court cases, a freaking drop in the bucket of our judicial system...but we can't send them to trial so they can either be convicted or freed. Why? Because of FEAR.
    Sometimes FEAR is the correct response. Would you welcome these Gitmo guys to be your new neighbor? Why should anyone else be expected to?
    the Fix-is-in Bureau of Investigation

  4. #114
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    Re: Kerry: 'Offensive' to leave an American behind

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    That would be a different set of circumstances, wouldn't it? Crimes committed on our soil. Not so for the Gitmo guys.
    And the Germans we released back to Germany after WWII - even though we knew some of them were murderous bastards, too - committed no crime on our soil.

    As if it'd be a greater bargain to take them through an more expensive court proceeding? Face it. Gitmo is cheap in comparison.
    So keep them in prison without trial until they die of old age? Is that what America is like, now?

    This is often repeated, but haven't really heard or seen any real analysis, just that many take it as gospel.

    What if this isn't true? Then it'd be the case where matters are made much worse by releasing the hardest of the hard core back into the wild to rejoin the fight. Now I did see a summary of analysis that said somewhere around 30% of those released did in fact rejoin the fight.
    I know this might come as a shock, but people are pretty much the same all over the world. If some other nation had invaded and were occupying our nation, how would we the people respond, no matter what the reason was that we were invaded? Would we meekly say, "Okay, let's try to build a country the way you think we should"? Or would we take up arms and slaughter the occupiers at every opportunity, especially if we knew they were holding 155 of our countrymen without trial? What would we as Americans do? You know doggone well what we would do.

    But what's incredible is that while doggone near every American would take up arms to fight the occupying nation, we ASSUME that other people wouldn't react the same way towards us when we're the occupiers!

    Sometimes FEAR is the correct response. Would you welcome these Gitmo guys to be your new neighbor? Why should anyone else be expected to?
    Which is worse, to let these guys go back to the Middle East where they might radicalize and put some more of our troops at risk? Or to continue to chip away at our longstanding national tradition of not keeping people in jail forever without trial?

    One way risks a few lives - the other way risks the very character of our nation. You tell me which is worse.
    “To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  5. #115
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    Re: Kerry: 'Offensive' to leave an American behind

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    And the Germans we released back to Germany after WWII - even though we knew some of them were murderous bastards, too - committed no crime on our soil.
    Comparing uniformed military personnel to terrorists that surround themselves with innocents? That's hardly what I'd call an apples to apples comparison.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    So keep them in prison without trial until they die of old age? Is that what America is like, now?
    When their countries of their origin don't even want the Gitmo guys back? I think their

    Meh. What do you do with someone you don't dare release? Someone who's very likely to go off and kill innocent people? Aren't they typically incarcerated for life? Yeah, I'd like to see the military tribunals actually sentence them to life.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    I know this might come as a shock, but people are pretty much the same all over the world. If some other nation had invaded and were occupying our nation, how would we the people respond, no matter what the reason was that we were invaded? Would we meekly say, "Okay, let's try to build a country the way you think we should"?
    No one's doing this to these countries. That's a straw man argument. In fact, we have left them to run and organize their own country as they

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Or would we take up arms and slaughter the occupiers at every opportunity, especially if we knew they were holding 155 of our countrymen without trial? What would we as Americans do? You know doggone well what we would do.
    Depends. If the guys that were being held were the most murderous scurge, I don't think anyone would raise arms to get them back. Do note, their countries of their origins don't even want them back. That's how much trouble these guys caused.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    But what's incredible is that while doggone near every American would take up arms to fight the occupying nation, we ASSUME that other people wouldn't react the same way towards us when we're the occupiers!
    Didn't seem like we were occupiers how our troops were greeted during the Iraq invasion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Which is worse, to let these guys go back to the Middle East where they might radicalize and put some more of our troops at risk? Or to continue to chip away at our longstanding national tradition of not keeping people in jail forever without trial?
    The fallacy here is the continued belief that it's a law enforcement situation, when it's already escalated to a military one. Even the FBI wouldn't be able to handle this situation, so it's a military situation. Well beyond law enforcement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    One way risks a few lives - the other way risks the very character of our nation. You tell me which is worse.
    Just as long as it's not your Grandmother? I acknowledge that it is against the character of the nation, however, it would seem that it's the best choice of a variety of very bad choices. You know. Hard choices made by a president during difficult and ground breaking times.
    the Fix-is-in Bureau of Investigation

  6. #116
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    Re: Kerry: 'Offensive' to leave an American behind

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    They are as you describe yet here is what the White House had to say.

    "Moderate Taliban" aka "moderate terrorists'" is the most dangerous and stupid single thing to ever come out of the White House, and I recognize the competition. But this suggest strongly that these people just don't have a clue. I supposed calling them "Gentlemen" was just a slip but this demonstrates it was not. Inside the Obama administration’s debate over freeing Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl - The Washington Post
    Do you even know who the Taliban are? It sounds to me from your response here that you really DON'T understand. You might want to read up a bit. The Taliban, while certainly having radical members is not the same thing as Al Qeada. I get the impression that you view them similarly.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Kerry: 'Offensive' to leave an American behind

    I think getting Bergdahl back was the right thing to do. But what is offensive is the release of these 5 hard core Taliban leaders. By releasing them you have just put our troops, our NATO allies, the present Afghan government and its people in more danger than they were before the release or swap.

    As a former soldier, the one thing you do not do is put the nation or your fellow soldiers in more danger than absolutely necessary. You do not add to their danger. What do you tell the families of those who were killed, wounded and maimed in capturing these five in the first place?
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: Kerry: 'Offensive' to leave an American behind

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Any illegal immigrants who are accused of a crime are sent through our court system...and if they're convicted, they're jailed...and if they're declared not guilty, they're deported and set free.
    If they are an illegal immigrant they are automatically guilty of a crime.
    As if the bill for keeping Guantanamo open is chump change.
    Just look at it as another stimulus bill, or a few days holiday for the first family. That's $3 million a day.
    Another thing y'all aren't getting is that the longer we keep them here - and there's only 155 of them, 79 of whom have ALREADY been cleared to go home (but the GOP won't allow funding for a freaking flight to send them home) - the more we outrage their friends and families, the more of them who are radicalized, who take up arms against us. It's just like with the torture -by doing the wrong thing, we create more terrorists than we keep imprisoned.
    It's the mad Mullahs who are doing the radicalization of young men, the promise of 72 virgins being just one example, but it seems many Americans have been propagandized as well.

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    Re: Kerry: 'Offensive' to leave an American behind

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Do you even know who the Taliban are? It sounds to me from your response here that you really DON'T understand. You might want to read up a bit. The Taliban, while certainly having radical members is not the same thing as Al Qeada. I get the impression that you view them similarly.
    Why not do some research before you post? Taliban - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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    Re: Kerry: 'Offensive' to leave an American behind

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    Seems to me that the administration is losing their believers and excusers on a daily basis. Heck, even some of the Biased Lame Stream Media is coming around to questioning the president and his administration is a more forceful manner.
    Or do you think that it's all in preparation for the next president which is likely to be a Republican?
    It seems many in the msm are becoming a little ashamed of themselves and backtracking on their support for Obama. They should have been honest before the last election, though I doubt they have learned any long terms lessons. They will continue to lack perspective or objectivity until reality cannot be avoided any longer.

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