Page 11 of 12 FirstFirst ... 9101112 LastLast
Results 101 to 110 of 114

Thread: Bergdahl says he was tortured by Taliban captors

  1. #101
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Last Seen
    08-29-17 @ 09:28 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    16,575

    Re: Who Do You Believe? A soldier or the soldiers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    "healthy" is a vague term which can have many definitions. He was no more unhealthy then his captors. Look at the average Taliban fighter and you will see they are also very "unhealthy" just do to the nature of their profession. You can't live in a cave and run from place to place living off the meager wildlife in desolate area's and live a "healthy" life. The average age someone dies in Afghanistan is 58 years old. It only makes sense that he would suffer a bit health wise living like the average afghan for 5 years. So the term is relative. And any health issues he has are a result of living like an afghan Taliban fighter for 5 years, not from torture. Ask some WW2 POW's what they went thru and you will see what real torture is. What Bergdahl went thru was heaven in comparison.
    Please show us this medical report that he was as healthy as his captors. It's interesting you like to spout things but don't back them up. Fact is NO doctor has declared him healthy yet YOU claimed he was.

    And yet again I will say. I'm not saying the guy is innocent, but he doesn't deserve to be left with the Taliban. He deserves an investigation and if necessary a trial. THAT is what we do for our military. You don't really care, you believe in trial by media instead. Completely Un-American.

  2. #102
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Where I am now
    Last Seen
    09-11-17 @ 03:00 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    16,386

    Re: Who Do You Believe? A soldier or the soldiers?

    I don't care if he was tortured every minute of every day (in so far as whether the exchange was a good idea).

    You don't negotiate with terrorists...ever (unless it is a stalling tactic to kill them/free hostages).

  3. #103
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Seen
    09-27-16 @ 12:59 PM
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    5,189

    Re: Who Do You Believe? A soldier or the soldiers?

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    I don't care if he was tortured every minute of every day (in so far as whether the exchange was a good idea).

    You don't negotiate with terrorists...ever (unless it is a stalling tactic to kill them/free hostages).
    Please forward this to Israel. They don't seem to have gotten the news.

  4. #104
    Phonetic Mnemonic
    radcen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Look to your right... I'm that guy.
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:11 AM
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    33,413

    Re: Who Do You Believe? A soldier or the soldiers?

    "We don't negotiate with terrorists" is akin to "zero tolerance" policies. Makes for a good sound bite, and plays well to the average uninformed citizen, but in reality is not always the best option.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  5. #105
    Guru

    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Columbus, OH
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:49 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    4,484

    Re: Who Do You Believe? A soldier or the soldiers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    Every unit has disciplinary problems, particularly an army unit in a combat zone. I think what is happening here is that the administration is trying to muddle the reputation of the unit to try and discredit first hand accounts of Berghdhals desertion. Funny how they try and discredit Berghdhals unit, but somehow separate Berghdhal from his unit as if he was the only good soldier in it. Even if his unit lacked discipline, he was part of that unit as well.
    I don't see how that is possible unless the Administration is in possession of a time machine. The problems in this unit have been known and reported on for years. Berghdahl certainly had his own issues, but the men out there smearing him are full of crap.

  6. #106
    Sage
    j-mac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 12:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    30,274

    Re: Who Do You Believe? A soldier or the soldiers?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    ... I'm not saying the guy is innocent, but he doesn't deserve to be left with the Taliban. He deserves an investigation and if necessary a trial...
    However TNE, you know darned well that a narrative is being built specifically to avoid any investigation, or trial....An investigation would turn up more and more questions about how the administration broke the law in doing this, and a trial would send the message that progressive demo's are all for coddling, and capitulation to our enemies.

    However, it is a known fact that he walked away from his post without any order, or knowledge of his command structure. This is desertion of his post, and is a crime in the military second only to being a traitor. Although I will agree with you that every American ever held needs to be brought home, the manner in which American's are "gotten back" matters, not only for the optics of the strength of our government, but for the appearance of what a trade, and lack of investigation, and trial for a known deserter does to moral, and others contemplating desertion currently in the military...Take for example the Iraqi Army...Faced with the current advance of ISIS right now, instead of standing and fighting, they are shedding their uniforms, weapons, and other links to their service and running....This is the message sent when there is NO consequences for actions like that of Bergdahl...
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

  7. #107
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Last Seen
    08-29-17 @ 09:28 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    16,575

    Re: Who Do You Believe? A soldier or the soldiers?

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    However TNE, you know darned well that a narrative is being built specifically to avoid any investigation, or trial....An investigation would turn up more and more questions about how the administration broke the law in doing this, and a trial would send the message that progressive demo's are all for coddling, and capitulation to our enemies.
    And I don't support that. However, what I do support is an investigation and if necessary a trial. These are things that MANY people have commented on that they do not want him to have. Many have expressed regard that he should have been left to the Taliban.

    However, it is a known fact that he walked away from his post without any order, or knowledge of his command structure. This is desertion of his post, and is a crime in the military second only to being a traitor. Although I will agree with you that every American ever held needs to be brought home, the manner in which American's are "gotten back" matters, not only for the optics of the strength of our government, but for the appearance of what a trade, and lack of investigation, and trial for a known deserter does to moral, and others contemplating desertion currently in the military...
    The only thing I disagree with Obama on is not also actively working int he same manner for the soldier currently being held in the Mexican jail. Like it or not those 5 were deemed long ago to be "cleared" for release. It was just a matter of how.

    Take for example the Iraqi Army...Faced with the current advance of ISIS right now, instead of standing and fighting, they are shedding their uniforms, weapons, and other links to their service and running....This is the message sent when there is NO consequences for actions like that of Bergdahl...
    THis is a different situation all together. What we had here was a TRAINED army abandon their posts in mass and left equipment and weapons to the enemy. If these people do not want to fight for their freedom, than I don't want our troops over there doing the same.

    They simply just ran, that is unacceptable.

  8. #108
    Sage
    j-mac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 12:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    30,274

    Re: Who Do You Believe? A soldier or the soldiers?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    And I don't support that. However, what I do support is an investigation and if necessary a trial. These are things that MANY people have commented on that they do not want him to have. Many have expressed regard that he should have been left to the Taliban.
    I can't speak for others, but I think there is more than a little misrepresentation of their views here...I don't believe that ANYONE wanted him to 'rot' or 'die' in the hands of the Taliban. But however, they also do not approve of the deal proffered to gain his release.

    Consider this al Baghdadi guy now in Iraq as the head of ISIS...We once had him in custody too, and was "cleared for release" by letting the budding authority adjudicate his fate. Now he is Burning Iraq.

    The only thing I disagree with Obama on is not also actively working int he same manner for the soldier currently being held in the Mexican jail. Like it or not those 5 were deemed long ago to be "cleared" for release. It was just a matter of how.
    Unfortunately for Tamorrisi (sp?) in Mexico, there is no political upside for Obama to negotiate anything for his release....He already gets what he wants from Mexico.

    THis is a different situation all together. What we had here was a TRAINED army abandon their posts in mass and left equipment and weapons to the enemy. If these people do not want to fight for their freedom, than I don't want our troops over there doing the same.

    They simply just ran, that is unacceptable.
    How is it different? Bergdahl stated his disillusionment with the military, and the US as a whole more than once in emails retrieved, and because he didn't want to fight, he left his weapons, and other gear and just walked away. The Iraqi Army that is deserting now, don't want to fight the ISIS invaders, and don't want to die, so they are abandoning their equipment, and uniforms and just walking away....

    NO difference in my mind.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

  9. #109
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Last Seen
    08-29-17 @ 09:28 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    16,575

    Re: Who Do You Believe? A soldier or the soldiers?

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I can't speak for others, but I think there is more than a little misrepresentation of their views here...I don't believe that ANYONE wanted him to 'rot' or 'die' in the hands of the Taliban. But however, they also do not approve of the deal proffered to gain his release.

    Consider this al Baghdadi guy now in Iraq as the head of ISIS...We once had him in custody too, and was "cleared for release" by letting the budding authority adjudicate his fate. Now he is Burning Iraq.
    I can show tons and tons of comments from conservatives on right-wing sites saying exactly that he should have been left to rot. Are the comments from main-stream politicians? No, of course not they wouldn't want to get caught saying something like that there would be a backlash.

    Unfortunately for Tamorrisi (sp?) in Mexico, there is no political upside for Obama to negotiate anything for his release....He already gets what he wants from Mexico.
    As I said, that's why I don't support Obama doing one, but not the other. People I think would have had no problem with even this had he been consistant and done the same thing for the soldier in the Mexican prison.

    How is it different? Bergdahl stated his disillusionment with the military, and the US as a whole more than once in emails retrieved, and because he didn't want to fight, he left his weapons, and other gear and just walked away. The Iraqi Army that is deserting now, don't want to fight the ISIS invaders, and don't want to die, so they are abandoning their equipment, and uniforms and just walking away....

    NO difference in my mind.
    You see no difference between one man and an Army? Again, if the people of Iraq don't want to defend their freedom, why should we send in U.S. troops to help them?

    The difference is wht the Iraqi army did was worse. It would be the equivalent of the entire U.S. military in the U.S. East Coast just abandoning their equipment and head out west without a fight.

  10. #110
    Sage
    j-mac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 12:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    30,274

    Re: Who Do You Believe? A soldier or the soldiers?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    I can show tons and tons of comments from conservatives on right-wing sites saying exactly that he should have been left to rot. Are the comments from main-stream politicians? No, of course not they wouldn't want to get caught saying something like that there would be a backlash.
    So what? Do these people even understand what they are saying? I don't think so. Some are most likely just agitating for effect. But, you make the mistake so often made by the far left today, that was decried when it happened in your own direction in times of the past...And that is that you can go to some highly partisan site and find hyper partisans shooting off their mouths does in no way represent the whole of "the right"....Yet, you characterize it that way anyway, it's wrong, and it's lazy.

    As I said, that's why I don't support Obama doing one, but not the other. People I think would have had no problem with even this had he been consistant and done the same thing for the soldier in the Mexican prison.
    I disagree, I think there would still be a problem with the trade, but at least he wouldn't have given the optics of aiding our enemies, while holding a military criminal in higher regard than a decorated honorable solider.

    You see no difference between one man and an Army? Again, if the people of Iraq don't want to defend their freedom, why should we send in U.S. troops to help them?
    You're building a strawman argument here...I never said we should send US troops in...But, yes, it is the same damned thing....One man or one hundred. The result on moral, and military cohesiveness is the same.

    The difference is wht the Iraqi army did was worse. It would be the equivalent of the entire U.S. military in the U.S. East Coast just abandoning their equipment and head out west without a fight.
    So desertion is ok as long as it isn't whole units at a time?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

Page 11 of 12 FirstFirst ... 9101112 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •