• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287:411]

Re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

Ceist said:
What essential difference is there between an opposite sex couple having sex for intimacy and pleasure using contraception and a same-sex couple having sex for intimacy and pleasure? Neither will result in 'procreation'.
Click to expand...

They are both unnatural, although contraception does not absolutely preclude conception and is thus less unnatural than sodomy.
 
Re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

Paleocon said:
They are both unnatural, although contraception does not absolutely preclude conception and is thus less unnatural than sodomy.
Click to expand...

my girl friend is to old to have kids so is are sex unnatural to?
 
Re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

blarg said:
my girl friend is to old to have kids so is are sex unnatural to?
Click to expand...

Her infertility is not deliberately willed, so no. Although fornication is irrational even if not unnatural.
 
Re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

Paleocon said:
Her infertility is not deliberately willed, so no. Although fornication is irrational even if not unnatural.
Click to expand...

very confused why some sex that cant result in procreation is unnatural then its not like same sex couples will themselves to not being able to pro create with one another

and its perfectly rational it feels nice and its a good activity to bond over or bondage over if your into that kind of thing
 
Re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

blarg said:
very confused why some sex that cant result in procreation is unnatural then its not like same sex couples will themselves to not being able to pro create with one another

and its perfectly rational it feels nice and its a good activity to bond over or bondage over if your into that kind of thing
Click to expand...

Sex with a woman who is too old to have children is non-procreative due to a condition of the person (accidental to the act itself), whereas sodomy is by nature of the act non-procreative.

The act of fornication tends to produce children out of wedlock, this it is irrational.
 
Re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

Paleocon said:
They are both unnatural, although contraception does not absolutely preclude conception and is thus less unnatural than sodomy.
Click to expand...

Less unnatural. :lamo

Paleocon said:
Sex with a woman who is too old to have children is non-procreative due to a condition of the person (accidental to the act itself), whereas sodomy is by nature of the act non-procreative.

The act of fornication tends to produce children out of wedlock, this it is irrational.
Click to expand...

Mental Gymnastics Gold Medalist Paleocon, everybody.
 
Re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

Deuce said:
Less unnatural. :lamo



Mental Gymnastics Gold Medalist Paleocon, everybody.
Click to expand...

What?
 
Re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

Paleocon said:
What?
Click to expand...

You are twisting and turning to try and explain that one type of non-procreative sex is bad, while others are acceptable. Mental gymnastics, moving goalposts. It's irrelevant anyway. Gay people already can have sex. This is a thread about marriage, not sex.
 
Re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

Deuce said:
You are twisting and turning to try and explain that one type of non-procreative sex is bad, while others are acceptable. Mental gymnastics, moving goalposts. It's irrelevant anyway. Gay people already can have sex. This is a thread about marriage, not sex.
Click to expand...

That you don't get something doesn't make it mental gymnastics.
 
Re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

Paleocon said:
That you don't get something doesn't make it mental gymnastics.
Click to expand...

I think what he is trying to say is that you're failing in your attempt to fit different relationships into some completely made up order for what is natural and unnatural.
 
Re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

Hatuey said:
I think what he is trying to say is that you're failing in your attempt to fit different relationships into some completely made up order for what is natural and unnatural.
Click to expand...

Then he's incorrect.
 
Re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

Paleocon said:
Then he's incorrect.
Click to expand...

He's not the only one who thinks you're failing. You've basically created a subjective pyramid of things that are and aren't natural with no way to measure them or arguments that qualify them conclusively.
 
Re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

Hatuey said:
He's not the only one who thinks you're failing. You've basically created a subjective pyramid of things that are and aren't natural with no way to measure them or arguments that qualify them conclusively.
Click to expand...

What arguments have i made that are subjective?
 
Re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

Paleocon said:
What arguments have i made that are subjective?
Click to expand...

Your classification of contraception as being less unnatural than homosexuality for example. What exactly makes it more natural than homosexuality if homosexuality exists in the natural world and contraception doesn't?
 
Re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

Hatuey said:
Your classification of contraception as being less unnatural than homosexuality for example. What exactly makes it more natural than homosexuality if homosexuality exists in the natural world and contraception doesn't?
Click to expand...

The argument appealed only to objective reality, it had no subjective appeal.

Sodomy is more unnatural than contraception because it absolutely excludes procreation, whereas contraception does not.

They are both unnatural however.
 
Re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

Paleocon said:
The argument appealed only to objective reality, it had no subjective appeal.

Sodomy is more unnatural than contraception because it absolutely excludes procreation, whereas contraception does not.
Click to expand...

The reason for contraception's existence is to exclude procreation even if it does happen accidentally. However, wouldn't the absolute exclusion of procreation then make it unnatural for a man to willingly have has sex with a woman who he knows is infertile and he can't procreate with under any circumstance?
 
Re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

Hatuey said:
The reason for contraception's existence is to exclude procreation even if it does happen accidentally. However, wouldn't the absolute exclusion of procreation then make it unnatural for a man to willingly have has sex with a woman who he knows is infertile and he can't procreate with under any circumstance?
Click to expand...

Sex with an infertile person is non-procreative by virtue of a quality of the person, which is incidental to the nature of the act. Sodomy and contraception, however, are non-procreative by virtue of the act itself.
 
Re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

Paleocon said:
Sex with an infertile person is non-procreative by virtue of a quality of the person, which is incidental to the nature of the act.
Click to expand...

Only that has no real bearing on my question: Is a person, who willingly chooses to have sex with someone that they know that they can't procreate with, engaging in an unnatural act?
 
Re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

Hatuey said:
Only that has no real bearing on my question: Is a person, who willingly chooses to have sex with someone that they know that they can't procreate with, engaging in an unnatural act?
Click to expand...

If the act itself is unnatural, then yes. If the act itself is not unnatural, then no.
 
Re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

Paleocon said:
If the act itself is unnatural, then yes. If the act itself is not unnatural, then no.
Click to expand...

So then, any sexual act which excludes procreation by its very nature is unnatural? Yes?
 
Re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

Hatuey said:
So then, any sexual act which excludes procreation by its very nature is unnatural? Yes?
Click to expand...

Yes that is correct.
 
Re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

Paleocon said:
Yes that is correct.
Click to expand...

So would a heterosexual marriage where the couple remains abstinent be considered natural by those standards or unnatural?
Likewise, would an elderly couple who never had children for whatever reason be considered natural or unnatural?
 
Last edited:
Re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

Hatuey said:
So would a heterosexual marriage where the couple remains abstinent be considered natural by those standards or unnatural?
Likewise, would an elderly couple who never had children for whatever reason be considered natural or unnatural?
Click to expand...

Note that I'm speaking of acts, not couples.

There is no act thus no unnatural act.

An elderly couple does not act unnaturally by having sex.
 
Re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

Paleocon said:
Note that I'm speaking of acts, not couples.
Click to expand...

Alright, so let me rephrase: Is the act of marrying someone without necessarily procreating, unnatural?
 
Re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

Hatuey said:
Alright, so let me rephrase: Is the act of marrying someone without necessarily procreating, unnatural?
Click to expand...

No, as getting married is not itself a sexual act.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom