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Thread: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287:411]

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    Re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    The argument appealed only to objective reality, it had no subjective appeal.

    Sodomy is more unnatural than contraception because it absolutely excludes procreation, whereas contraception does not.
    The reason for contraception's existence is to exclude procreation even if it does happen accidentally. However, wouldn't the absolute exclusion of procreation then make it unnatural for a man to willingly have has sex with a woman who he knows is infertile and he can't procreate with under any circumstance?
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    Re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    The reason for contraception's existence is to exclude procreation even if it does happen accidentally. However, wouldn't the absolute exclusion of procreation then make it unnatural for a man to willingly have has sex with a woman who he knows is infertile and he can't procreate with under any circumstance?
    Sex with an infertile person is non-procreative by virtue of a quality of the person, which is incidental to the nature of the act. Sodomy and contraception, however, are non-procreative by virtue of the act itself.

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    Re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    Sex with an infertile person is non-procreative by virtue of a quality of the person, which is incidental to the nature of the act.
    Only that has no real bearing on my question: Is a person, who willingly chooses to have sex with someone that they know that they can't procreate with, engaging in an unnatural act?
    Peace is a lie. There is only Passion. Through Passion I gain Strength. Through Strength I gain Power. Through Power I gain Victory. Through Victory my chains are Broken. The Force shall free me.

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    Re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Only that has no real bearing on my question: Is a person, who willingly chooses to have sex with someone that they know that they can't procreate with, engaging in an unnatural act?
    If the act itself is unnatural, then yes. If the act itself is not unnatural, then no.

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    Re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    If the act itself is unnatural, then yes. If the act itself is not unnatural, then no.
    So then, any sexual act which excludes procreation by its very nature is unnatural? Yes?
    Peace is a lie. There is only Passion. Through Passion I gain Strength. Through Strength I gain Power. Through Power I gain Victory. Through Victory my chains are Broken. The Force shall free me.

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    Re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    So then, any sexual act which excludes procreation by its very nature is unnatural? Yes?
    Yes that is correct.

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    Re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    Yes that is correct.
    So would a heterosexual marriage where the couple remains abstinent be considered natural by those standards or unnatural?
    Likewise, would an elderly couple who never had children for whatever reason be considered natural or unnatural?
    Last edited by Hatuey; 06-22-14 at 03:53 PM.
    Peace is a lie. There is only Passion. Through Passion I gain Strength. Through Strength I gain Power. Through Power I gain Victory. Through Victory my chains are Broken. The Force shall free me.

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    Re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    So would a heterosexual marriage where the couple remains abstinent be considered natural by those standards or unnatural?
    Likewise, would an elderly couple who never had children for whatever reason be considered natural or unnatural?
    Note that I'm speaking of acts, not couples.

    There is no act thus no unnatural act.

    An elderly couple does not act unnaturally by having sex.

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    Re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    Note that I'm speaking of acts, not couples.
    Alright, so let me rephrase: Is the act of marrying someone without necessarily procreating, unnatural?
    Peace is a lie. There is only Passion. Through Passion I gain Strength. Through Strength I gain Power. Through Power I gain Victory. Through Victory my chains are Broken. The Force shall free me.

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    Re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Alright, so let me rephrase: Is the act of marrying someone without necessarily procreating, unnatural?
    No, as getting married is not itself a sexual act.

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