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Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287:411]

Re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

When they were created.

Prove it. Prove humans have a telos. Esp. since it is so easy...(this can be proven)...for them not to fulfill any such thing.

Why would humans be imbued with telos if they can so easily use their free will to not fulfill it?
 
Re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

Prove it. Prove humans have a telos. Esp. since it is so easy...(this can be proven)...for them not to fulfill any such thing.

Why would humans be imbued with telos if they can so easily use their free will to not fulfill it?

Everything has a telos.
 
Re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

Everything has a telos.

Prove it. Prove humans have a telos. Esp. since it is so easy...(this can be proven)...for them not to fulfill any such thing.

Why would humans be imbued with telos if they can so easily use their free will to not fulfill it?
..................
 
Re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

Everything has a telos.

As others have said, prove it. And then prove that the "telos" of humans is exactly what you believe it is based on the "creator's" words or actual designs (I want blueprints and/or specific instructions written by this "creator"). (Hint: the Bible and all other religious texts were written by men, not a creator/higher power/God.)
 
Re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]


First I'll refer you to Aquinas's five ways to prove that God exists.

Then there's the fact that since an intelligent being created everything, everything has a telos.
 
Re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

First I'll refer you to Aquinas's five ways to prove that God exists.

Then there's the fact that since an intelligent being created everything, everything has a telos.

those don't pan out either god is also imposable or a non divine stand in Will do
 
Re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

First I'll refer you to Aquinas's five ways to prove that God exists.

Then there's the fact that since an intelligent being created everything, everything has a telos.

Aquina's five ways prove nothing. There has been countless threads on this that show that those are easily refuted because they require having set assumptions made from the beginning, not to mention they have nothing whatsoever to do with "telos"/teleology.

Prove "an intelligent being created everything". You can't. And no, Aquina's five ways do not prove this. As I said, those start from the illogical position that certain assumptions must be made to begin with. They also involve some subjective assumptions, such as everyone assuming that the "prime mover" is God. This is not true.

Heck, the very stating of "nothing exists without something else" proves the paradox and the problem. If things cannot simply "pop" into existence, then where did "God" come from?

http://www.vorpal.us/2007/10/the-five-ways-of-st-thomas-aquinas-are-all-dead-ends/

Aquinas is basically just saying "I don't know what caused those first things to exist, to move, so it must have been "God".

Refuting the Five Ways of Aquinas | Philippine Atheists and Agnostics Society (PATAS)Philippine Atheists and Agnostics Society (PATAS)

You have not provided proof or evidence, only opinion. You are trying to use philosophy as fact, it isn't. Philosophy is subjective.
 
Re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

those don't pan out either god is also imposable or a non divine stand in Will do

They prove that an intelligent being created the universe.
 
Re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

They prove that an intelligent being created the universe.

no they don't
what makes the stand in not divine is that it doesn't have to be intelligent
 
Re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

no they don't
what makes the stand in not divine is that it doesn't have to be intelligent

Why not?
 
Re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

They prove that an intelligent being created the universe.

No they don't, and I've posted why they don't. They are merely an attempt to explain answers to unknowns using "God" the same way others have done in the past. It is just an attempt to do so with more scientific knowledge about the world around us involved.
 
Re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

First I'll refer you to Aquinas's five ways to prove that God exists.

Then there's the fact that since an intelligent being created everything, everything has a telos.

We have destroyed Aquinas before. Do you think we've forgotten?
 
Re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

We have destroyed Aquinas before. Do you think we've forgotten?

How have you done this?
 
Re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

DId you not read RN's link?

All of it is the justification of a divine being. It is the opposite of science, Aquinas BEGINS with the assumption of the divine being and then invents reasons to support it.

"Aquinas states that common sense tells us that the universe works in such a way, that one can conclude that is was designed by an intelligent designer."

*sigh* Even Aquinas admits he cant 'explain' it....
 
Re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]


what makes the stand in not divine is that it doesn't have to be intelligent

did you mean why is that?
 
Re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

what makes the stand in not divine is that it doesn't have to be intelligent

did you mean why is that?

I dont see any distinction. It refers to a higher being. Period. And there is ZERO proof of that.

What philosophers do is choose not to deify them. What the religious do IS deify them. It doesnt matter....it's not real.
 
Re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

A thing's purpose is part of its nature.

Gotcha!

There are two methods to discern the will of "god".

Words written by men and observation of the created universe.

There are two species where females are sexually receptive at all times but only fertile part of that time; humans and bonobo chimps.

The fact that human females can have sex even when not fertile is pretty solid evidence that "god" had more than procreation in mind for sex. If not, women would have "seasons" like all the other mammals.

Further, take the bonobo. Innocent as all animals are. They have a matriarchal social order and spend a ridiculous amount of time engaged in sexual acts, including sodomy (oral).

So do we believe words on paper put there by men or what can clearly be observed in "gods" creation itself?

"God" made women to engage in sex without being fertile. What he made contradicts what you believe.

Unless you believe in "douchebag god" who built us temptable, in a world full of temptations, and damns us for eternity if we give in to the process "he" created in the first place.
 
Re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

I dont see any distinction. It refers to a higher being. Period. And there is ZERO proof of that.

What philosophers do is choose not to deify them. What the religious do IS deify them. It doesnt matter....it's not real.

how things got to be like this is a real question probably dose have a reel answer

I don't know a god is not real just that its not necessary based on any argument iv ever seen
 
Re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

Gotcha!

There are two methods to discern the will of "god".

Words written by men and observation of the created universe.

There are two species where females are sexually receptive at all times but only fertile part of that time; humans and bonobo chimps.

The fact that human females can have sex even when not fertile is pretty solid evidence that "god" had more than procreation in mind for sex. If not, women would have "seasons" like all the other mammals.

Further, take the bonobo. Innocent as all animals are. They have a matriarchal social order and spend a ridiculous amount of time engaged in sexual acts, including sodomy (oral).

So do we believe words on paper put there by men or what can clearly be observed in "gods" creation itself?

"God" made women to engage in sex without being fertile. What he made contradicts what you believe.

Unless you believe in "douchebag god" who built us temptable, in a world full of temptations, and damns us for eternity if we give in to the process "he" created in the first place.

going by the Eden account that's right up his gods ally
 
Re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

Never been done.

been done on hear with you we go over it for a bit then you stop posting to are objections without refuting them happened on that evidence for god thread that's still ongoing
 
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