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Thread: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287:411]

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    re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    They can keep their personal business to themselves. My former fishing buddy was a very large and very tough woman living in a long term relationship with another woman in a home they shared with a business they shared doing hair. They were active in politics in one of the most liberal towns in one of the most liberal counties of one of the most liberal states (Connecticut) and never once did I hear her make an issue of her sexuality. She was just my fishing partner and a politician. Whatever her sexual preference, she wasn't first and foremost a lesbian, homosexual or any other label of sexual behavior. No one cared what the nature of their relationship was and nothing about it was "hidden". They just kept their personal business their feckin' personal business, as personal business SHOULD be.
    Why cant they go out in public like anyone else and hold hands? Get married in the park in front of loved ones? Go together to PTA meetings?

    Those are activities any straight couple can take for granted. Why cant gays? Why are they not entitled to the same? (Without the risk of being beaten to death or verbally abused?)
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    re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    How do sodomy laws affect lesbians?
    Dildos?

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    re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    What about when it was illegal to sit at the front of the bus or use a certain water fountain?

    What about when women werent allowed to vote?

    How do you think they gained those rights? To be treated equally and not as 2nd class citizens?

    They used protests, civil demonstrations, marches, speeches, etc. It sure made alot of people uncomfortable. People were hanged, women were hosed with fire hoses.

    Too bad, people are entitled to equal treatment under the law. Dont like it? Too bad, why should they be ashamed of who they are? Too bad, there's no right to not be offended.
    Somehow the homosexual community went from being people that were proud of engaging in "an alternative lifestlye" to wanting homosexuality to be considered in every way the same as heterosexuality. The problem I see coming is that once homosexual marriages are legal in all 50 states, the drama will be over and what, then, will the drama queens who sooooo love to be the center of attention have for their next crusade? What will make the "gay and proud of it" people "special" once they get the "normality" they pretend they're seeking?
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Why cant they go out in public like anyone else and hold hands? Get married in the park in front of loved ones? Go together to PTA meetings?

    Those are activities any straight couple can take for granted. Why cant gays? Why are they not entitled to the same? (Without the risk of being beaten to death or verbally abused?)
    We have laws against assault and battery.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I don't see that as a reason to identify oneself primarily by ones sexual behavior. It reduces those who do that to nothing BUT that.
    It's unavoidable if their own sexuality is being put on trial. If for example your Christianity were made illegal, I think you would be more inclined to self identify by your faith than if you were not persecuted for that faith in the first place. Whatever is made a point of contention will be brought into focus. I couldn't care less that I'm right handed, but make it a controversial talking point in the news every single day and you can bet that my right handedness is going to come into razor sharp focus. It's the same here.

    You also didn't answer (or see) my question to you: would you, at least in some part, self identify according to your practice of heterosexual sex were it made illegal? Remember the key difference here is that unlike gay people, your sexual practices are not a point of contention.

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    re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    Somehow the homosexual community went from being people that were proud of engaging in "an alternative lifestlye" to wanting homosexuality to be considered in every way the same as heterosexuality. The problem I see coming is that once homosexual marriages are legal in all 50 states, the drama will be over and what, then, will the drama queens who sooooo love to be the center of attention have for their next crusade? What will make the "gay and proud of it" people "special" once they get the "normality" they pretend they're seeking?
    Those who were the first to come out were the gregarious people and the ones who couldn't "hide" their sexuality. Perhaps because they were a very butch lesbian, or a feminine man who couldn't act or pass as a straight person. Those were the people who were attacked and bashed by society at large. So what's the natural human reaction to that? Backlash. "If I honestly can't change who I am, and I can't pretend to be something I am not, I am going to be LOUD just to spite you!!"

    If, for example, a coworker constantly attacked you Papa Bull and spent his/her entire time antagonizing you without any attempt to reconcile - what would your reaction be? That coworker would hack you off, and you'd retaliate. You'd show that you're happy to be XYZ or be proud in doing something your own way. Screw that hateful coworker!

    But, if you weren't being attacked on a constant basis and singled out by a coworker, what's the point of being retaliatory? What's the point of being difficult? There's no one antagonizing you. You can just work our your career in peace, and embrace having a normal & successful work life.

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    re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    So what does that have to do with the fact that homosexuals identify themselves principally by their sexual behavior? I was just noting that they're the only group of people that identify themselves first and foremost by their sexual behavior and secondly as anything else. It's not like they're just normal, ordinary people just like everyone else that merely enjoys same sex intimacy. No, they're first and foremost, people who have sex with people of the same sex. Everything else that "is them" is an afterthought.
    They don't. Others identify them that way, but that doesn't mean that they do.

    Sexuality is much more about which sex you are intimately attracted to, would be willing to make a longterm commitment to, develop a meaningful relationship with. In general, this includes sexual activity for many people/couples (whether opposite sex or same sex couples), but it doesn't have to. Some people can't have sex at all, but they still have attractions.

    They are "normal, ordinary people". You may see "them" differently, but they don't see themselves that way and neither do I.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

    Quote Originally Posted by brothern View Post
    Those who were the first to come out were the gregarious people and the ones who couldn't "hide" their sexuality. Perhaps because they were a very butch lesbian, or a feminine man who couldn't act or pass as a straight person. Those were the people who were attacked and bashed by society at large. So what's the natural human reaction to that? Backlash. "If I honestly can't change who I am, and I can't pretend to be something I am not, I am going to be LOUD just to spite you!!"

    If, for example, a coworker constantly attacked you Papa Bull and spent his/her entire time antagonizing you without any attempt to reconcile - what would your reaction be? That coworker would hack you off, and you'd retaliate. You'd show that you're happy to be XYZ or be proud in doing something your own way. Screw that hateful coworker!

    But, if you weren't being attacked on a constant basis and singled out by a coworker, what's the point of being retaliatory? What's the point of being difficult? There's no one antagonizing you. You can just work our your career in peace, and embrace having a normal & successful work life.
    This is the same sort of thing that led to people embracing the redneck label and making it a much more positive label rather than the insult it has been in the past.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    We have laws against assault and battery.
    We also have laws against shooting someone. That doesn't mean there isn't a risk of getting shot. And no, before you try and twist my statement into an anti-gun statement it was used as an analogy of risk not anti-gun.

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    re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    They can keep their personal business to themselves. My former fishing buddy was a very large and very tough woman living in a long term relationship with another woman in a home they shared with a business they shared doing hair. They were active in politics in one of the most liberal towns in one of the most liberal counties of one of the most liberal states (Connecticut) and never once did I hear her make an issue of her sexuality. She was just my fishing partner and a politician. Whatever her sexual preference, she wasn't first and foremost a lesbian, homosexual or any other label of sexual behavior. No one cared what the nature of their relationship was and nothing about it was "hidden". They just kept their personal business their feckin' personal business, as personal business SHOULD be.
    And yet you are trying to stereotype and massively so homosexuals, and you know someone who doesn't do what you claim. You knew she was with a woman, so you know she is gay. Not all homosexual men make a big deal out of sleeping with men or getting intimate with men. Most homosexuals in general don't.

    They are not sharing anything more on average than heterosexuals do. You may notice it more simply because you are used to people talking about/referring to their opposite sex partner(s) rather than same sex partners.

    You want to know about sharing bedroom knowledge, join the Navy. You will find out about all sorts of things from heterosexuals, especially guys. I heard much more about what sexual behaviors were going on in the bedrooms of my heterosexual male shipmates (and even female shipmates) than I ever did about the homosexual ones, and we had two openly gay women in berthing (they weren't dating each other, although both did have girlfriends).
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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