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Thread: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287:411]

  1. #191
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    re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    It's easy to understand if you turn it around, i.e. if heterosexual sex were outlawed. While heterosexuals would not define themselves by the sex they have, outlawing heterosexual sex would in fact make it illegal for heterosexuals to be themselves.
    I see. So why don't people engaged in other behaviors that are outlawed self-identify primarily by their illegal behavior? I've never yet seen a "tax cheat pride parade" and be SO damned proud they try to claim their behavior on the same level as "race".
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Sodomy laws were not the only things used against homosexuals in the past, even our own history. Prior to its removal as a mental disorder, homosexuality could be used to commit a person involuntarily without any evidence that they were actually having sex with someone of the same sex.
    So what does that have to do with the fact that homosexuals identify themselves principally by their sexual behavior? I was just noting that they're the only group of people that identify themselves first and foremost by their sexual behavior and secondly as anything else. It's not like they're just normal, ordinary people just like everyone else that merely enjoys same sex intimacy. No, they're first and foremost, people who have sex with people of the same sex. Everything else that "is them" is an afterthought.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I can't recall any way it has ever been illegal to "be oneself" unless one defines "oneself" by virtue of their sexual activity and that sexual activity is, at the time, illegal.
    Someone is gay whether or not they ever have sex.

    They *are defined* by society as gay because they are attracted to the same gender the way you, presumably, are attracted to the opposite gender. They merely recognize who they are but can only live the same life as you do, out in society with a partner and family (instead of hidden) by being subjected to others recognizing it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  4. #194
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    re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see. So why don't people engaged in other behaviors that are outlawed self-identify primarily by their illegal behavior? I've never yet seen a "tax cheat pride parade" and be SO damned proud they try to claim their behavior on the same level as "race".
    Point is, would you, at least in some part, self identify according to your practice of heterosexual sex were it made illegal? Remember the key difference here is that unlike gay people, your sexual practices are not a point of contention.

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    re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I already explained it. If your claim is that sodomy laws make it illegal for homosexuals to "be themselves", then you are defining "themselves" by their sodomy. And the really strange thing is that this isn't strange. It's not strange because homosexuals do that to themselves. The only people in the world that I know of that define themselves primarily by their sexual behavior is the GLBT community. Your post merely reinforced that.
    How do sodomy laws affect lesbians?

    And most straight men define almost everything in their lives by their orientation as well...just about everything they do....is focused on getting or impressing the opposite sex or having sex. Certainly a good part of their daily life is focused there, even if they cant always act on it.

    Society is just so used to it that we dont even think about it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    So what does that have to do with the fact that homosexuals identify themselves principally by their sexual behavior?
    I already addressed this. It's their activities that are being made a point of controversy, and not yours.

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    re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Someone is gay whether or not they ever have sex.

    They *are defined* by society as gay because they are attracted to the same gender the way you, presumably, are attracted to the opposite gender. They merely recognize who they are but can only live the same life as you do, out in society with a partner and family (instead of hidden) by being subjected to others recognizing it.
    They can keep their personal business to themselves. My former fishing buddy was a very large and very tough woman living in a long term relationship with another woman in a home they shared with a business they shared doing hair. They were active in politics in one of the most liberal towns in one of the most liberal counties of one of the most liberal states (Connecticut) and never once did I hear her make an issue of her sexuality. She was just my fishing partner and a politician. Whatever her sexual preference, she wasn't first and foremost a lesbian, homosexual or any other label of sexual behavior. No one cared what the nature of their relationship was and nothing about it was "hidden". They just kept their personal business their feckin' personal business, as personal business SHOULD be.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Nicely written ruling, makes frequent reference to Loving, stating that prior to Loving, there was no history and tradition of marriage between races, so trying to claim tradition here fails.
    So in addition to being an immoral leftist, the judge is also an incorrigible moron.

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    re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    I already addressed this. It's their activities that are being made a point of controversy, and not yours.
    I don't see that as a reason to identify oneself primarily by ones sexual behavior. It reduces those who do that to nothing BUT that.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see. So why don't people engaged in other behaviors that are outlawed self-identify primarily by their illegal behavior? I've never yet seen a "tax cheat pride parade" and be SO damned proud they try to claim their behavior on the same level as "race".
    What about when it was illegal to sit at the front of the bus or use a certain water fountain?

    What about when women werent allowed to vote?

    How do you think they gained those rights? To be treated equally and not as 2nd class citizens?

    They used protests, civil demonstrations, marches, speeches, etc. It sure made alot of people uncomfortable. People were hanged, women were hosed with fire hoses.

    Too bad, people are entitled to equal treatment under the law. Dont like it? Too bad, why should they be ashamed of who they are? Too bad, there's no right to not be offended.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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