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Thread: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287:411]

  1. #161
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    re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    And none of those concerns have ANYTHING to do with Same Sex Marriage, because whether marriage is allowed for Same Sex Couples or not they can STILL raise children regardless. So the "Oh please think of the children" excuse doesn't fly.

    Are you seriously saying that Adam and Steve being married is going to be worse than Adam and Steve the Same Sex couple in raising children? If not, your concerns don't matter because regardless they can raise children together LEGALLY whether SSM is legal or not.

    You are never going to make it illegal for gays to raise children. It simply isn't going to happen.
    Oh that's just silly.... Gay's who have children, guess what? The bio parent wins... Just like in hetero child rearing.. Oh wait..


    Tim-
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    re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    I think that signing DOMA into law, however horrible that law was, may have really saved us from a Constitutional Amendment banning same sex marriage. I could be wrong, and really we can't know what would have happened, but the support existed for a Constitutional Amendment in Congress at the time, and likely in the states as well. That would have been much harder to get gone than DOMA was. It would have taken more effort on the part of ban supporters, but there were votes for it when Bush was in office in Congress, and during that time was when many states were putting into place their own state bans.
    Perhaps but his oath is to uphold the constitution and the so-called DOMA was a complete utter failure at that.

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    re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Wrong. Any ruling by the SCOTUS can be overturned via an Amendment to the US Constitution. If you actually have the support, you can change the Constitution.

    We do not live in a democracy, but a constitutional republic that has a system of checks and balances, which includes the SCOTUS.
    So then what happens if they passed such an amendment but without repealing other amendments it would violate like the 14th? Talk about a farce in that case.

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    re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    The reality is....those who oppose marriage equality really only have themselves to blame. If they hadn't fought so hard to deny gays domestic partnerships, we probably wouldn't be here today where marriage equality will be the law of the land. Many gays were fine with domestic partnerships having equal footing to straight marriage...but that was before the right-wing fought tooth and nail to deny those. Now....all of sudden, the right-wing is crying "Why aren't domestic partnerships enough.....why do you have to take our word away from us". To that supporters of marriage equality say...."Sorry.....too little too late....you can take your "domestic partnerships" and shove them where the sun doesn't shin....because marriage equality will be nationwide within a couple of years."
    Reveals the extent of their bigotry quite nicely doesn't it and yeah, it's definitely laugh in their faces time. Although i really think DPs would have just slowed down the fight for marriage, since the significance is more than a word. The federal govt grants over 1000 rights based on marriage license, not DPs, and the federal govt can never agree on anything. Consequently, some of the first states to have DPs now have marriage equality.

    DPs are also absurdly easy to deny rights to, even when they're legal. For instance, the bigot governor in my state opted to prevent partner benefits to state employees who got a DP, in one of the cities that allows those. He said too bad, we require marriage license. It seems close to impossible to make DPs equal with all the legal wrangling that would require, compared to a federal judge simply striking down a state marriage ban.

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    re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

    Now two counties up here are putting holds on SS marriage, Washington and Racine counties, just in case the judge is over ruled. The WI AG is taking his appeal up the the 7th. circuit court of appeals.

    Confusion about her ruling continues – because she did not give counties guidance on whether they should begin issuing marriage licenses to same-sex couples immediately.

    Some counties are issuing licenses, as Wisconsin’s Attorney General has issued his appeal through the 7th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Chicago.
    Marriages continue: ACLU late Monday submits same-sex marriage order to Judge Crabb | FOX6Now.com

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    re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup
    Call me old fashioned if you like, but although I can't put my finger on any one glaring benefit and articulate why a child is better suited for having both biological parents involved and attentive, I do KNOW it when I see it. I don't see why gays or polygamists or any other consensual relationship can't enjoy civil unions, but I think marriage should be held to a higher standard, and reserve that standing for those that perpetuate the best model for success, and that's heterosexual marriages.

    Tim-

    Never got an answer for this....no explanation of who was keeping up those higher standards today or how gays could possibly debase marriage further than straight couples already have.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    That sure would be nice...if anyone had/has done that. But since heterosexuals have not....I'd say that ship has sailed. Gays and polygamists, etc etc have not remotely sullied marriage the way that straight people have over the centuries.

    So there's really no point in reserving anything...since straight people seem to take marriage for granted and abuse the crap out of it, the legal system, each other, and their kids at the drop of a hat.

    A marriage is what the couple make of it. Gays will participate in it the same as straight people have...for better and for worse. But their track record with their kids has not been shown to be inferior to that of straight couples.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
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    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I think homosexuals should be very happy with civil unions. It's the state that might not be happy with them. Hey, in my lifetime we went from homosexuality being illegal to civil unions. What's not to be happy about that for homosexuals?
    So what you are saying is that homosexual should be happy it is no longer illegal to be themselves. wow just wow.

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    re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    Perhaps but his oath is to uphold the constitution and the so-called DOMA was a complete utter failure at that.
    That is true, but which would you personally rather be dealing with, a Constitutional Amendment (which would still be in place, and likely for a while, possibly making it much harder for states to even individually recognize same sex marriage, depending on how it was written) or a now struck down DOMA?

    Unfortunately sometimes we do have to do things that are wrong to avoid bigger problems due to human nature and the beliefs of others.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    So then what happens if they passed such an amendment but without repealing other amendments it would violate like the 14th? Talk about a farce in that case.
    No. Amendments can never be unconstitutional. The 14th Amendment would simply not apply to same sex marriages. It would apply in every other case. It would basically be an exception. This is why after the state marriage bans were placed into the state constitutions, any challenges had to go to federal court and be claimed as a violation of the US Constitution, which takes precedent over any state constitutions.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    re: Judge strikes down Wisconsin gay marriage ban[W:287]

    While looking for more information on the upcoming November elections I cam across this which I thought was a very interesting article.

    Latest Same-Sex Marriage Rulings Prove That Scalia Was Right


    Latest Same-Sex Marriage Rulings Prove That Scalia Was Right | FiveThirtyEight
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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