• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

U.S. Adds 217,000 Jobs in May, Unemployment Rate Stays at 6.3%[W:218]

I think you are missing the point.

Conservatives generally argue that increasing the minimum wage shifts jobs from younger workers to more mature workers, because if employers are going to have to pay a decent wage, they prefer to have more mature workers that possibly require less training and less babysitting. Economic history supports this point of view.

Someone was arguing that our jobs have shifted away from the middle ages adult and towards the young and older Americans (although someone later succesfully refuted that claim), and they were complaining about that. So I suggested that a possible "fix" for jobs moving away from middle aged folks would be to increase the minimum wage, which has been proven to shift jobs away from younger folks toward middle age folks.

In otherwords, maybe the fact that min wage hasn't kept up with inflation for at least 5 years, explains or partially explains why jobs have shifted towards younger people and people close to retirement age (if that has happened at all, it's debateable).

No, I understand the point. The point was that there are mcjobs, and your solution is increase minimum wage. That is a bandaid, not a solution to poor job creation.
 
No, I understand the point. The point was that there are mcjobs, and your solution is increase minimum wage. That is a bandaid, not a solution to poor job creation.

McJobs is all that our youth ever had.

Young people don't immediately go into professional or high paying jobs. It takes time and/or education to get a better paying job.

My first job after graduating high school was busing tables for minimum wage. Heck, my first job after college as as an assistant manager trainee at McDonalds.

Now I really don't understand your point. Are you suggesting that we stop hiring youth to do necessary jobs like working in fast food or collecting buggies in the parking lot of Walmart? Are those not neccessary jobs? And who should do them, if not younger people, 45 year olds with college degrees and years of management experience? I don;t think you you have fully thought out what you are suggesting.
 
Because we are failing to make quality jobs/careers available for our youth, we need to increase minimum wage? How about we fix the economy and create the right jobs so they can get a mortgage, and their kids can pick up their burger flipping job.

You see the right problem, but you have the wrong solution.

I should add, if there were to be an increase in minimum wage, it should be done at the state level, not federal.


sorry, but my opinion is that you are the one with the misguided (but well intended) 'solution'
and here is why: your passage: "... How about we fix the economy and create the right jobs ..."

the economy is not in need of being 'fixed'. the invisible hand will keep it righted, if only we would not disturb natural economic forces. certainly, government policy and actions strongly influence it, but the economy is normally self sustaining

which leads to my next objection to your 'solution'. we do not create the right jobs. demand for such jobs are created. and then they are filled by those who possess the knowledge, skills and abilities to perform those jobs

it was not long ago that it was insisted there was a massive future demand for network administrators. but industry advances/changes caused the demand for such positions to be much weaker than had earlier been imagined
what we can do is provide access to training for our citizens to assure they have the skills needed to fill those jobs. and by doing so, we also assure the business community that it should expect to find the work force it needs to succeed. at present, there are massive numbers of un-/under-skilled individuals who need work but no jobs requiring those so under-prepared. at the same time, we are importing those with strong STEM skills from other nations - especially asian nations. as an example, my son cannot find enough high end programmers to fill jobs starting at $160,000 - $200,000 per year ... at the same time we have millions who have no skills and no minimum wage job opportunities. our work force is not being trained to meet our economy's future needs

except for make work programs, such as FDR's Works Progress Administration (WPA), where massive public projected were undertaken to provide jobs rather than jobs being created because of natural economic demand, what you propose going against economic history

now if you are proposing that our government should re-implement programs such as the WPA and the CCC then i am in agreement with you. but that is the only way jobs are created for workers. otherwise, business' economic demand for employees is what creates new jobs
 
McJobs is all that our youth ever had.

Young people don't immediately go into professional or high paying jobs. It takes time and/or education to get a better paying job.

My first job after graduating high school was busing tables for minimum wage. Heck, my first job after college as as an assistant manager trainee at McDonalds.

Now I really don't understand your point. Are you suggesting that we stop hiring youth to do necessary jobs like working in fast food or collecting buggies in the parking lot of Walmart? Are those not neccessary jobs? And who should do them, if not younger people, 45 year olds with college degrees and years of management experience? I don;t think you you have fully thought out what you are suggesting.


Clearly you didn't understand my point.

Here is the point.

We need to make quality jobs, not jobs for the sake of making jobs. Those jobs are Mcjobs. They are not intended to support a family of four. To do that, you need a quality job.
 
sorry, but my opinion is that you are the one with the misguided (but well intended) 'solution'
and here is why: your passage: "... How about we fix the economy and create the right jobs ..."

the economy is not in need of being 'fixed'. the invisible hand will keep it righted, if only we would not disturb natural economic forces. certainly, government policy and actions strongly influence it, but the economy is normally self sustaining

which leads to my next objection to your 'solution'. we do not create the right jobs. demand for such jobs are created. and then they are filled by those who possess the knowledge, skills and abilities to perform those jobs

it was not long ago that it was insisted there was a massive future demand for network administrators. but industry advances/changes caused the demand for such positions to be much weaker than had earlier been imagined
what we can do is provide access to training for our citizens to assure they have the skills needed to fill those jobs. and by doing so, we also assure the business community that it should expect to find the work force it needs to succeed. at present, there are massive numbers of un-/under-skilled individuals who need work but no jobs requiring those so under-prepared. at the same time, we are importing those with strong STEM skills from other nations - especially asian nations. as an example, my son cannot find enough high end programmers to fill jobs starting at $160,000 - $200,000 per year ... at the same time we have millions who have no skills and no minimum wage job opportunities. our work force is not being trained to meet our economy's future needs

except for make work programs, such as FDR's Works Progress Administration (WPA), where massive public projected were undertaken to provide jobs rather than jobs being created because of natural economic demand, what you propose going against economic history

now if you are proposing that our government should re-implement programs such as the WPA and the CCC then i am in agreement with you. but that is the only way jobs are created for workers. otherwise, business' economic demand for employees is what creates new jobs

I really don't think the government should be making jobs. In FDRs time, it was a solution. Today's government should be fostering an environment to make jobs.
 
Clearly you didn't understand my point.

Here is the point.

We need to make quality jobs, not jobs for the sake of making jobs. Those jobs are Mcjobs. They are not intended to support a family of four. To do that, you need a quality job.

The only jobs that are created are the ones that are needed, and the ones for which exist ample demand to create. Period.

Now do you have a suggestion as to how to make "quality jobs"? I would love to hear it.
 
The only jobs that are created are the ones that are needed, and the ones for which exist ample demand to create. Period.

Now do you have a suggestion as to how to make "quality jobs"? I would love to hear it.

i was going to say the same thing (only less eloquently) that is stated and asked in this post, which is why i re-post it here
 
The only jobs that are created are the ones that are needed, and the ones for which exist ample demand to create. Period.

Now do you have a suggestion as to how to make "quality jobs"? I would love to hear it.

Allow for more private sector development. Make it easier for small business start ups. Remove barriers set by the government.
 
Allow for more private sector development. Make it easier for small business start ups. Remove barriers set by the government.

Like what type of barriers?

Can you list any specific barriers to starting a small business?

The only barriers that I know about are the ones on the part of the individual, like having some skills, and a good business idea, and a little cash to start it with. Other than that, I can't really think of any barriers. Pretty much all you have to do is to find someone who is willing to pay you to do something or to provide them with something.

What type of business would you like to start, and why don't you start it? Is there some law that prevents you from starting it?
 
Allow for more private sector development.
what is suppressing private sector development?

Make it easier for small business start ups.
easier in what way?
easier to do what, exactly?

Remove barriers set by the government.
specifically what barriers are set by government?
 
Like what type of barriers?

Can you list any specific barriers to starting a small business?

The only barriers that I know about are the ones on the part of the individual, like having some skills, and a good business idea, and a little cash to start it with. Other than that, I can't really think of any barriers. Pretty much all you have to do is to find someone who is willing to pay you to do something or to provide them with something.

What type of business would you like to start, and why don't you start it? Is there some law that prevents you from starting it?

I already started my business. And I don't run it anymore. Let me tell you why. I wasn't able to pay myself what I am worth. I was able to find someone else to do that. So I took their job instead of continuing the one I made for myself.

Which goes back to $15 an hour. Why pay someone $15? Shouldn't you pay them what they are worth? Why should I as employer pay more $15 an hour for a guy to spin a sign in front of my business? Are you being paid what you are worth? Do you pay your employees or the people who work for you what they are worth? If not, then you are the problem.
 
The economic results just released today show why we aren't having the employment created necessary to keep up with population growth and why we have so many people discouraged. This is what happens when you elect and re-elect a community organizer who was unqualified for a job in a private sector economy and the direction so many want to take this country. The dependent society is upon us and that is what makes liberals happy.

U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

When are you liberals going to wake up, if ever?
 
I already started my business. And I don't run it anymore. Let me tell you why. I wasn't able to pay myself what I am worth. I was able to find someone else to do that. So I took their job instead of continuing the one I made for myself.

Which goes back to $15 an hour. Why pay someone $15? Shouldn't you pay them what they are worth? Why should I as employer pay more $15 an hour for a guy to spin a sign in front of my business? Are you being paid what you are worth? Do you pay your employees or the people who work for you what they are worth? If not, then you are the problem.

So you failed in business. Hummm.

Anyhow, you didn't answer the question. What type of governmental barriers did you find to starting that business?

Apparently none, since you were able to start it.

However you did apparently find that there wasn't enough demand to support your business. A lack of customers is why most businesses fail. Our economy is demand driven.
 
I already started my business. And I don't run it anymore. Let me tell you why. I wasn't able to pay myself what I am worth.
actually, you were
you were able to pay your self what you were economically worth to the company
now, you may have wanted to receive remuneration greater than your true economic worth but that true worth is driven by the economic environment

I was able to find someone else to do that. So I took their job instead of continuing the one I made for myself.

Which goes back to $15 an hour. Why pay someone $15? Shouldn't you pay them what they are worth? Why should I as employer pay more $15 an hour for a guy to spin a sign in front of my business? Are you being paid what you are worth? Do you pay your employees or the people who work for you what they are worth? If not, then you are the problem.
there are comparables for almost every position
even something as rare as NFL quarterbacks. but you can see the range they are paid and then compare the quality of the employee you have and pay them accordingly within that range
the economic demand for people with a particular skill set is set by the economy. from your posts, you seem to be of the opinion that an arbitrary compensation value should be implemented instead. it's thinking like that by business owners which drives companies into the ground
 
Back
Top Bottom