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Should Target take action to keep rifles out of their stores?[W:37]

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if I have property that is commercially available for use as a gathering hall, a church could probably file suit against me if i refuse them public access on a religious basis.

And if you owned a store, I would need your permission to hold a church service in the store, or even in the parking lot (providing you owned that). Nor can I excersize my right to free speech with out your permission (distribute leaflets or hold a rally).

Now if "Target" were a shooting range, then perhaps your analogy might fit.

In short, I still retain my rights to free speech, religion, bear arms- I just need to have your permission to use those rights on your private commercial property. You dont even owe me an explanation if you tell me to go away and excersize all those rights somewhere else.


I have no idea whether they should, or should not. What I do know is that it is entirely up to them.
 
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Because one is a person and the other is an object. Not serving a gay person affects the person not being able to purchase an item. Not allowing a gun in the store does not restrict the person from purchasing an item.
but it does effect that persons right to exercise his/her civil rights in public access facility.

as i have said, I don't have a problem wit ha store having the authority to set a policy on firearms within the confines of their store... I really don't.
(as i have also said, I have no problem ignoring said policies either)... I don't like the idea of transferring the responsibility for my safety to those whom are wholly ill equipped to provide for that safety... but if they want to set that policy.. fine by me.



I do find it interesting that after years and years of saying " guns are just a tool" and being told they are deadly lethal people killing monsters... that now thee is a bit of a different shoe on a different foot thing going on.
all of a sudden, guns are just an object for the purposes of this debate.

obviously guns are a bit more than "just an object" or we wouldn't be discussing this anymore than we would be discussing banning the open carry of staplers... so what makes this mere object a bit different?... well 2 things as i see it... the potential for it to be used as the deadly lethal people killing monster... and the constitutional right protections that is afforded.
 
Re: Should Target take action to keep rifles out of their stores?

Only someone on the extreme far-wrong would equate engaging in perverted sexual activities in public with openly exercising one of one's most essential Constitutional rights.

We have a Constitutional right to bear arms in Target stores?
 
Re: Should Target take action to keep rifles out of their stores?

I don't mind the insults - I 'fear' guns in the hands of others - but what's mystifying is I explained my position several times. Wouldn't it be easier to respond to those reasons instead of making up stuff?

Wasn't an insult.
 
Re: Should Target take action to keep rifles out of their stores?

... but I can't see lugging a rifle around in Target while shopping (unless I believed I was under serious and imminent threat, and if I was under serious/imminent threat WTF am I shopping for??)

Bacon is the only thing that comes to mind that would justify it.
 
but it does effect that persons right to exercise his/her civil rights in public access facility.

Target is private property. They have a right to set the policies of what they will allow in the store as far as objects go. And yes, a gun is an object. If you do not wish to transfer the responsibility to the store for your safety, you don't have to shop there.

But it's not like you can ask a gay person "Leave your gay at the door" or "Leave your blackness at the door". The person, however, can enter a store without their gun and purchase items without their weapon. Which is the point people are not understanding.

I don't care one way or another. I don't pick the places to shop by whether I can bring my firearm into the place and yes I own firearms.
 
And if you owned a store, I would need your permission to hold a church service in the store, or even in the parking lot (providing you owned that). Nor can I excersize my right to free speech with out your permission (distribute leaflets or hold a rally).

Now if "Target" were a shooting range, then perhaps your analogy might fit.

In short, I still retain my rights to free speech, religion, bear arms- I just need to have your permission to do use those rights on your private property.


in practical terms, I won't seek your permission to exercise my 2A rights... and you'll never know i'm doing so...I've plowed this field for the last 40+ years.
( it was actually a bank robbery that got me into carrying concealed long ago.. i was unlucky enough to be in line at a bank when 2 robbers with guns walked in and robbed the place...i figured if no-gun policies weren't going to stop the bad guys, the good guys shouldn't be hamstrung by those same policies.)

you're policy may be observed, and it's your right to set that policy, though.
 
Target is private property. They have a right to set the policies of what they will allow in the store as far as objects go. And yes, a gun is an object. If you do not wish to transfer the responsibility to the store for your safety, you don't have to shop there.

But it's not like you can ask a gay person "Leave your gay at the door" or "Leave your blackness at the door". The person, however, can enter a store without their gun and purchase items without their weapon. Which is the point people are not understanding.

I don't care one way or another. I don't pick the places to shop by whether I can bring my firearm into the place and yes I own firearms.

true, i don't have to shop there... or... oorrrr. i will do as i've always done...carry concealed.

I don't choose my stores by their gun policies either...well, i probably wouldn't shop at a store that is ardently anti-gun... but i don't go looking for them.
if i ever get the boot for carrying, so be it... but it has never happened in over 40 years,and i don't suspect it'll happen anytime soon.
 
true, i don't have to shop there... or... oorrrr. i will do as i've always done...carry concealed.

And if caught, say in Costco, you risk the chance of a trespassing charge. Either way, it's like speeding. People do it, just don't be suprised when you get cause.

I don't choose my stores by their gun policies either...well, i probably wouldn't shop at a store that is ardently anti-gun... but i don't go looking for them.
if i ever get the boot for carrying, so be it... but it has never happened in over 40 years,and i don't suspect it'll happen anytime soon.

And that's the risk you're taking. Which to me is like taking the risk for speeding. People obviously do it, you're not the only one, I just have no sympathy when they get cuaght.

I do think, however, those that are purposely carrying rifles into stores are doing nothing but hurting their own cause and losing support for the very thing they are demonstrating. It's the ole saying "Just because you CAN do something, doesn't me you SHOULD do that". Those carrying rifles into stores are demonstrating that quite well IMO.

I'm supportive of the idea to open carry firearms, but I am not about to be stupid and do a "Look at me" action either.
 
I am very big on people not being able to violate the rights of others, but I am also very big on people otherwise having the right to their own person and property. So a business owner should be able to set his/her own rules for what is acceptable on his/her own premises.

Bare feet greatly increase the possibility of injury and therefore are a serious liability risk for a private business, and semi nudity is not pleasant for many others; ergo, the rules: no shoes, no shirt, no service. I support any business anywhere having the right to impose such restrictions on who they serve. And that would also go for restrictions on guns, back packs, or anything else that the business proprietor didn't want to see or deal with for any reason whatsoever.
 
Re: Should Target take action to keep rifles out of their stores?

We have a Constitutional right to bear arms in Target stores?

I don't believe it's been tested yet.. so it can be argued either way.

there are some other related cases and laws we can look to.. such as employers trying to ban firearms from their property... parking lots, to be more specific.... that's a no-go in most states.

thankfully, it's incredible rare that a situation would arise that would afford this issue it's day in court.( and i hope it doesn't happen and this remains an academic issue)
it would take a a nutbag killer, the store, someone who observed the no-guns policy, that same person being harmed , and the store not accepting liability for the safety of the customers... a perfect storm, if you will.
 
And if caught, say in Costco, you risk the chance of a trespassing charge. Either way, it's like speeding. People do it, just don't be suprised when you get cause.



And that's the risk you're taking. Which to me is like taking the risk for speeding. People obviously do it, you're not the only one, I just have no sympathy when they get cuaght.

I do think, however, those that are purposely carrying rifles into stores are doing nothing but hurting their own cause and losing support for the very thing they are demonstrating. It's the ole saying "Just because you CAN do something, doesn't me you SHOULD do that". Those carrying rifles into stores are demonstrating that quite well IMO.

I'm supportive of the idea to open carry firearms, but I am not about to be stupid and do a "Look at me" action either.

i'd be very surprised if i was caught.. but if it did happen,i wouldn't sweat it much.. i certainly wouldn't go shopping for sympathy.

i'm not a fan of "look at me" stunts either.. no matter the issue.
i've always said that i'm no fan of protests and marches.. it's all buffoonery to me.
that said, i respect the rights of others to engage in whatever buffoonery that is legally available to them.. and to reap whatever consequences they bring.... in this particular case, they have brought a host of negative reactions and a potential policy change at Target ( which would honestly make me laugh, as buffoonery that backfires often does.)
 
i'd be very surprised if i was caught.. but if it did happen,i wouldn't sweat it much.. i certainly wouldn't go shopping for sympathy.

i'm not a fan of "look at me" stunts either.. no matter the issue.
i've always said that i'm no fan of protests and marches.. it's all buffoonery to me.
that said, i respect the rights of others to engage in whatever buffoonery that is legally available to them.. and to reap whatever consequences they bring.... in this particular case, they have brought a host of negative reactions and a potential policy change at Target ( which would honestly make me laugh, as buffoonery that backfires often does.)

Yeah, I am failing to see what carrying their AR's, or AK's into the store accomplishes for them....I have a CCW, and you would never know I am armed unless you needed to...;)
 
Re: Should Target take action to keep rifles out of their stores?

And I agree. A private business can restrict guns if they wish.

The barefoot question was more rhetorical to those who think that you should be able to take guns anywhere without restriction, but other rights get thrown under the bus.

i personally don't care if a businesses allows guns or not. if i had a business i would not allow open carry in my store. if you have a conceal license and a gun and i can't tell then there is little i can do about.

however a guy walking into my store with and open carry no. why? it is bad for business and makes other people uncomfortable and i don't know that person from jack and jill.
 
Re: Should Target take action to keep rifles out of their stores?

I'd love to see nothing more than to see cops get severely hurt - because they would love nothing more than to kill them some "bad guys."

This is pretty disturbing.

Certainly not a perspective that does gun ownership any good.
 
Just because you can legally do something diesnt mean you should.

A bunch of guys walking into Target with rifles may be legal and Target may allow it, but scaring the crap out if a bunch of soccer moms is stupid beyond words. Those idiots simply confirmed every negative stereotype that the general public may have about gun owners. Morons.

Shopping with a rifle over your shoulder isnt very comfortable...if they make their point...which I dont particularly agree with....then I'm sure it would be a very rare sight. If someone is going to carry a firearm, they generally carry handguns.
 
Re: Should Target take action to keep rifles out of their stores?

He fears guns in the hands of others.

I'm terrified of cars in the hands of others...with much more evidence of actual harm.
 
Re: Should Target take action to keep rifles out of their stores?

i personally don't care if a businesses allows guns or not. if i had a business i would not allow open carry in my store. if you have a conceal license and a gun and i can't tell then there is little i can do about.

however a guy walking into my store with and open carry no. why? it is bad for business and makes other people uncomfortable and i don't know that person from jack and jill.

I think it would depend on the culture of the community as to what I would allow in my place of business. In a ultra-liberal, politically correct kind of environment, I probably would not want visible guns in my place of business because so many of my customers would be uncomfortable or offended. But in Catron County, NM, somebody could carry a shotgun or hunting rifle or any other weapon into a restaurant or any other place of business, and few people would even notice. Here in Albuquerque, open carry is legal pretty much everywhere except for the usual: schools, bars, court houses and such. But it is rarely done and if I do see somebody with a revolver on his hip, I assume he is in law enforcement or security or some such and really don't think much else about it.

I can't imagine prohibiting CCW in any business I would run or manage. How would I know anyway?
 
Re: Should Target take action to keep rifles out of their stores?

True, there is a trivial chance of a mad gunman going off inside a department store, so you should prepare. And you should be always prepared a fire (a bottle of oxygen to survive the smoke would be helpful), and maybe wear a helmet in case a tile falls from above, and perhaps a first aid kit with one of the new heart deals that will restart yours should you have a heart attack. I'm sure you're wearing bullet proof vest, to survive the shootout or an attack by knife, etc. Can't be too prepared!

And I explained my core problem - I do not know who these people are, so why would I trust them? I recognize two things - the gun toter doesn't make the shopping experience more than trivially safer or more dangerous. But he or she introduces a problem I have to deal with. I can't know if the person is sane, has been trained, follows the training, and will handle the weapon safely, so I'll feel a need to keep an eye on him or her. Not obsessively, but if there are 100 people in the target I'll be watching the rifle a bit more than the woman with a kid getting milk. It's something I don't want or need while shopping. I won't leave the store or promise never to come back till they ban weapons, but it's just added stress, however small, I prefer to avoid. And there is no reason for it. No one needs a firearm to shop safely.

How many people are attacked in parking lots? Plenty of women, that's for sure. Or stopping for gas on the way? Or if your car breaks down after dark and you or your wife have to wait for a tow truck?

Man, you do not think these things thru at all, do you? Easier just to complain about stuff that makes you 'uncomfortable'.


And no one cares if you trust them...I dont trust a single other person on the road I'm driving on. Too bad for me, I have to deal with it. And I'm alot safer in Target with guns than driving on the roads every day.

See....it's your perspective on the object, not the object itself and American has been on a campaign to demonize guns...and love their cars (this one since the 50s). And you can certainly see how people just pop their babies in cars...even with mere acquaintences...out of convenience and off they go at the drop of a hat....placing themselves and kids in more danger than they EVER are from people carrying guns out in public (concealed or open).

The guy with the rifle KNOWS everyone is watching him...duh. It's a statement in many cases (not that I agree with it). It's the ones you cant see until they open fire or hold up the cashier. :roll:

BTW, I didnt even shoot a handgun until my 40s. I never needed one before and I havent needed it since I got it. I try to carry as a rule...and used to... but am more about convenience today unfortunately, until I get a smaller one. There's no fear involved. It's prudence, just like carrying my cell phone. I dont like that either but I had to MAKE myself carry it everyday, everywhere...and that certainly has served a purpose in emergencies many times. Do I need it every day? No, but when I need it, I NEED it.

I learned to shoot, I liked it, and I recognized another tool to add for my own protection. So dont try building yourself up by tearing others down. Are people that practice firedrills with their family at home fearful? Or prudent? The ones that teach their kids about not getting into cars with strangers...fear? Are they scared every day their kid will be kidnapped? Or is it just smart to prepare your kid for it?
 
in practical terms, I won't seek your permission to exercise my 2A rights... and you'll never know i'm doing so...I've plowed this field for the last 40+ years.
( it was actually a bank robbery that got me into carrying concealed long ago.. i was unlucky enough to be in line at a bank when 2 robbers with guns walked in and robbed the place...i figured if no-gun policies weren't going to stop the bad guys, the good guys shouldn't be hamstrung by those same policies.)

you're policy may be observed, and it's your right to set that policy, though.

and the store has the right to deny you access....it really is that simple and I am sorry you wasted your 40 years not learning that.
 
Irrational fears should be dealt with by education, not by playing right into those fears.

I agree but the news media, the school systems, and many community/state govts are actively attempting to educate that guns are evil and that they should be feared. I think they are frustrated and trying to counter what they see as more and more restrictions. (I still am not agreeing with their actions and only speculating on their motives.)
 
and the store has the right to deny you access....it really is that simple and I am sorry you wasted your 40 years not learning that.

As I said before, I think walking the isles with an AK, or AR strapped across your back is kind of stupid, but it is interesting, do you take it to the point of someone walking around with a concealed weapon like say, a DB9? Because chances are you would never know they even had it.
 
Re: Should Target take action to keep rifles out of their stores?

Target should do whatever is A) legal and B) best for Target.
 
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