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Thread: Should Target take action to keep rifles out of their stores?[W:37]

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    Re: Should Target take action to keep rifles out of their stores?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    It doesn't matter - forcing Christians to back a cake (which violates their First Amendment religious rights) is the fundamental problem with that issue.

    You may as well claim you have the RIGHT to force Muslims to serve you pork...
    I agree that constitutional rights should not be violated, but I don't think you know when and where the constitution is in effect. Target, or any business, making a rule that says you can't open carry inside of their stores violates no constitutional rights. Target can also kick you out of their store for cursing too loudly and it would not be a violation of your constitutional rights.

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    Re: Should Target take action to keep rifles out of their stores?[W:37]

    Quote Originally Posted by The Man View Post
    Constitutional rights and civil rights are not one and the same. You know that. I know you're smarter than that. Civil rights cannot be taken away, constitutional rights can.
    Well the Bill of Rights is certainly part of the constitution, yet its a completely separate document.... Constitutional rights CANNOT BE TAKEN AWAY. The Constitution is what founded our society. Perhaps under law the constitution could be amended - I have never seen anyone even attempt it, and I'm not sure the process it would take to amend the actual Constitution or even why...

    The Bill of Rights on the other hand is a completely different story - there is no way in hell the first Ten Amendments to the Constitution will ever be changed - despite the progressive effort.

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    Should Target take action to keep rifles out of their stores?[W:37]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    Well the Bill of Rights is certainly part of the constitution, yet its a completely separate document.... Constitutional rights CANNOT BE TAKEN AWAY. The Constitution is what founded our society. Perhaps under law the constitution could be amended - I have never seen anyone even attempt it, and I'm not sure the process it would take to amend the actual Constitution or even why...

    The Bill of Rights on the other hand is a completely different story - there is no way in hell the first Ten Amendments to the Constitution will ever be changed - despite the progressive effort.
    Yes, Constitutional rights can be taken away. Convicted felons lose their right to vote and own guns, do they not? Why yes they do.

    And the Bill of Rights is NOT a separate document from the Constitution. They are amendments to the constitution. Amendments are part of the Constitution, and there's a lot of them, not just the first 10 that make up the 'bill of rights'.
    Last edited by The Man; 06-06-14 at 07:32 PM.

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    Re: Should Target take action to keep rifles out of their stores?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Man View Post
    I agree that constitutional rights should not be violated, but I don't think you know when and where the constitution is in effect. Target, or any business, making a rule that says you can't open carry inside of their stores violates no constitutional rights. Target can also kick you out of their store for cursing too loudly and it would not be a violation of your constitutional rights.
    The idea violates the Second Amendment - it's that simple.

    When you walk into a store do you see a sign that says "all civil liberties are left at the door?" Do you have any idea how many businesses are sued for violating individuals civil rights? -- so yes Civil Rights still apply in a business.

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    Re: Should Target take action to keep rifles out of their stores?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    The idea violates the Second Amendment - it's that simple.

    When you walk into a store do you see a sign that says "all civil liberties are left at the door?" Do you have any idea how many businesses are sued for violating individuals civil rights? -- so yes Civil Rights still apply in a business.
    No it does not violate the second amendment. The second amendment is not a civil liberty, it is a constitutional right. The constitution does not come into play at all if Target decides to ban open carry from their stores. It is akin to a person not allowing open carry in their own home.

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    Re: Should Target take action to keep rifles out of their stores?[W:37]

    Quote Originally Posted by The Man View Post
    Yes, Constitutional rights can be taken away. Convicted felons lose their right to vote and own guns, do they not? Why yes they do.

    And the Bill of Rights is NOT a separate document from the Constitution. They are amendments to the constitution. Amendments are part of the Constitution.
    No they don't - not for life, just as long as they're on parole hence considered still property of the state.

    Once an individual with a "felony" finishes his or her parole they can buy guns and vote because they served their time - they're free citizens.

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    Should Target take action to keep rifles out of their stores?[W:37]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    No they don't - not for life, just as long as they're on parole hence considered still property of the state.

    Once an individual with a "felony" finishes his or her parole they can buy guns and vote because they served their time - they're free citizens.
    You are ignorant on this. No a convicted felon cannot (legally) own guns or vote, even after serving their sentence and being totally free and clear.

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    Re: Should Target take action to keep rifles out of their stores?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Man View Post
    No it does not violate the second amendment. The second amendment is not a civil liberty, it is a constitutional right. The constitution does not come into play at all if Target decides to ban open carry from their stores. It is akin to a person not allowing open carry in their own home.
    You don't know what the hell you're talking about.

    Corporations don't control civil liberties..... Now, if a business doesn't want someone open/carrying a gun in their store they have every right to deny them entry - that is their right, but they can't discriminate without a policy.

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    Re: Should Target take action to keep rifles out of their stores?[W:37]

    Quote Originally Posted by The Man View Post
    You are ignorant on this. No a convicted felon cannot (legally) own guns or vote, even after serving their sentence and being totally free and clear.
    I was convicted of a class 4 felony when I was 18-years-old and I can vote and buy guns...

    Once you're out of the system you can vote and buy guns.... Sure it takes 7 years for that felony to go away but you can still vote if you're off parole - it just takes 7 years to clear your name to buy a gun.

    I've bought a few.

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    Re: Should Target take action to keep rifles out of their stores?[W:37]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lachean View Post
    But still, I consider open carry to be idiotic:
    1. If you open carry, you are the first target for a mass shooter. Especially when everyone else who has seen you open carrying look to you to "Do Something!"
    2. If the police come looking for a man with a gun, its best to not be one.
    I wasn't aware that anyone was talking about OC vs CC at all. I was talking about CC past a sign. Private businesses have every right to require a dress code and no visible arms as part of that dress code, but total disarmament is uncalled for.

    If you would like to talk about OC vs CC, however, you can begin be providing a working link the comparative crime statistics or other credible source which lead you to your conclusions. For example, in any of the recent mass shootings, how many of the victims were OC'ing? The faculty at Sandy Hook? Any of the patrons in Aurora? Anyone OC'ing at that mall in Oregon? The only one I can think of was a guard at Fort Hood, but he was targeted because he was a guard much like police are targeted simply because they're police, not for their OC'd gun.

    I look forward to reading your links.

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