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Thread: Seven States Running Out of Water

  1. #131
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    Re: Seven States Running Out of Water

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Probably because it would require a separate set of pipes for the flushing of toilets, and what else? No one bathes, washes dishes, or anything like that with salt water.
    Also because salt water is corrosive and would do considerable damage to any plumbing that wasn't all plastic.
    Our governments love to waste money on bull**** all the time - they just throw money at anything. Why not use the money they waste on a project that could help millions of people? I mean presently they're rebuilding roads that have nothing wrong with them just to create "union jobs."Also, the project wouldn't even be that difficult - pipes have already been laid, the plumbing system would have to be reworked - but it wouldn't really be that difficult of a job - complex to some extent - sure but not a major job.

    But like I said in a previous post - people like you WANT a crisis because it's something you can bitch about and gives you a reason to point fingers. You don't want a solution because that would destroy your reasons to hate.

  2. #132
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    Re: Seven States Running Out of Water

    Quote Originally Posted by Checkerboard Strangler View Post
    Gee, I don't remember saying that I think we should shut down Big Oil in California.
    Is that what you want to do?

    And, if you're looking for information about aquifers at risk due to fracking, you needn't look far.

    Here's one article from that well known librul bastion of lefty propaganda - Scientific American:
    Groundwater Contamination May End the Gas-Fracking Boom - Scientific American

    But as I said earlier, there are best practices which could definitely make fracking safer.
    If oil co's were obligated to follow them we might see a drastic reduction in groundwater contamination incidents and
    the aquifers might not be at so much risk.

    But I guess it's like the cycle we've observed in a lot of major industries over the years.
    Take seat belts, for instance. When they were mandated in 1964 the car makers screamed bloody murder.
    They wanted everyone to believe they would go bankrupt if they were forced to put them in.
    Same with safety glass, redundant braking system hydraulics, collapsible steering columns (aka "energy absorbing"),
    and tons of other safety equipment. Eventually they survived (whew!) and cars got better.
    That's why a 2009 Malibu can cut through a 59 Bel-Air like it's made of butter in a head on crash.
    One might be inclined to think the opposite but the fact is, the myth of the heavy lead sled being safer is just that, a myth.

    So, fracking CAN be done in a safer manner but we're either going to have to watch an endless stream of individual lawsuits
    or maybe work for a REPEAL of the EPA exemptions granted the industry by Cheney in order to see oil co's adopt those safer methods.
    The early auto airbag were put in by the auto manufacturers, and people didn't want to buy them. So they were discontinued till years later.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  3. #133
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    Re: Seven States Running Out of Water

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    Oil is renewable - that is a basic fact if you understand what oil actually is - which is nothing more than decomposed organic material.
    I'm saving this GEM, your assertion that oil is renewable, for a special occasion.
    It's going to be a lot of fun to destroy it. I want to get all my friends in here to watch first.
    Among them you can count a gentleman named Robert Rapier. Look him up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    Also, no true libertarian would worship Rand. She did not create the idea of individualism - nor is she a political libertarian "biblical" figure. I disagree with some of Rands ideas, however she is hardly a "leader" or her philosophy is hardly comparable to the Ten Commandments.... However, my political philosophy hardly has anything to do with this issue - if you want to discuss my politics then start a thread in a different forum and I would be glad to debate or discuss my politics.
    Not the least bit interested in discussing libertarian politics. Not with you, not with anybody.
    Libertarianism, at least as practiced by most right leaning Americans, is just anarchy for wealthy folks.
    I understand the wisdom of reining in government overreach where appropriate.
    I also understand that most of America's libertarians have some of the most inappropriate concepts of what defines government overreach.
    So when it comes to discussing libertarianism with me, save your breath, you'll need it to blow up your date.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    As far as oil and oil prices, well I think the federal government prevents oil from being a cheap commodity - so you can blame the federal government for the 3.80/gallon gas.... What do you really expect with all these regulations, fines, lawsuits and excess taxation - not to mention limitations on where one can drill?
    Roughly 12 percent of every gallon of gas has taxes attached to it:
    EIA-December-2011-Gallon-Breakdown.jpg
    Of course since libertarians do not believe in taxes, I understand the roots of your theory, but it's still just about 12 percent.
    Do the math. A forty-five cent discount isn't going to rock the world. And it won't do anything to stop market speculators, whose job it is to bid on oil futures to make a profit, from doing what speculators do. You discount forty-five cents, they see wiggle room to drive it up forty-five cents.
    There is a well established formula for gasoline price demand destruction in every market on the planet and the USA is no exception.
    When gasoline FIRST went up over four bucks a gallon Americans didn't have fleet fuel economy as good as they do now, so the response was for them to drive less, significantly less. So much less that the speculators actually burned themselves a little.

    If you haven't figured it out yet it's the federal government that has their hands in everything - they're like the mafia, and as a result of taxation, regulation and fines the prices of goods and services will be reflected.
    Bla bla bla anti-government rant. Do you ever have anything else in that Ayn Rand jukebox of yours?
    Put on a different record please...or not

    As far as electric cars - they're a joke, the funniest part is they haven't even been able to build a viable electric car yet because they're not thinking in the right direction because all the engineers are all on the same page going forward. They're wasting energy with those junk cars, not to mention some of their designs could seriously turn a car into an inferno.
    What's the right direction, please...enlighten me.
    And, as far as them catching on fire, you are required to back that up with some facts, please.
    I can't wait to lay waste to them.

    These engineers are wasting about 95% of the energy a moving care displaces.
    95 percent? Uhhhhhh NO, that would be piston engine cars doing that.

    To compare an electric car to a VCR is a joke.... An electric car is NOT even close to an innovation - as a matter of fact Tesla created an electric car that worked. However the technology has never been the issue - the viability has.
    Please don't confuse lead-acid or Edison battery tech with current Li-Ion and NiMh tech.(the latter being mostly displaced by the former)

    Presently gas/oil is the cheapest way to power a car... Until electric can make gas obsolete then it will always be that way.
    Price of batteries, speed of charging, and both are coming way way down, and if anything it's happening much faster than the price of VCR's.
    I actually tried to be conservative. Industry analysts have all made the same prediction as to charge rates and the general consensus is that, in about ten years it will be common to see charging stations which replace 80 to 90% of a car's charge in about as much time as it takes to fill a gas tank. There goes the range anxiety argument.

    Also, I don't appreciate the gigantic picture of Ayn Rand either.
    Too bad. Sucks to be you I guess. You're the one saying you're John Galt.
    (Mumble mumble stop the motor of the world mumble mumble Reardon Metal, mumble mumble Galt's Gulch)

    If you want to accuse me of being an Ayn Rand worshiper - fine - but I don't need a ****ing picture. Save the memes for the 12-year-olds you talk to, who need common core logic to understand concepts.
    Speaking of concepts, Ayn Rand never worked a single labor job in her entire miserable life but for some reason she expected people to swallow a story about a man who invents perpetual motion machines, static electricity generators, magical metals and irritable architects who blow up buildings to stoke their tantrums, and this has become the BIBLE for a generation of angry people who want a scapegoat.

    Thus we hear:
    "What are your masses but mud to be ground underfoot, fuel to be burned for those who deserve it?"
    From We the Living
    So who was it again who had trouble with common core logic and concepts? Your hero engaged in flights of fancy that surpass L. Ron Hubbard for laugh content and, it would be funny if her acolytes weren't working feverishly to make her books a neo-Mein Kampf for the 21st century.

    PS: The actual picture of Rand I selected was rather small.
    I can't help it the site blew it up in size.
    I was actually rather surprised it was that large.

    Do I need a tutorial on how to manipulate image sizes on DP?
    Point me to it please somebody
    Last edited by Checkerboard Strangler; 06-03-14 at 09:14 PM.
    If I didn't respond to your diatribe, it's possible you may have
    engaged in revisionism or broad sweeping generalizations.
    I don't have time for either, and you're probably on my IGNORE list.

  4. #134
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    Re: Seven States Running Out of Water

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    The early auto airbag were put in by the auto manufacturers, and people didn't want to buy them. So they were discontinued till years later.
    The "early" auto airbag?

    A little help please, I would be very grateful if you felt like filling me in on the early auto airbag because I am only aware of the mandated design we see in today's cars, not an optional extra designed years earlier. The auto companies did have to make a hefty investment to develop the current designs in ways which were safe enough to be feasible.

    Educate me, if you feel like it, on the EARLY airbag, because on that one thing I am apparently clueless and I would love to learn something today.
    No really, I am not being sarcastic, I really do mean what I said.

    But anyway, it doesn't change the fact that businesses tend to react negatively to mandates.
    I am not a knee jerk reactionary who automatically paints all of that in a manner which blames business exclusively.
    Sometimes government thinks it has a great idea but has no clue about the execution of it, sometimes they get it right.

    For instance, overreach by the EPA initially drove ALL LCD manufacturing OUT of the United States.
    If memory serves me right there are currently four or five major LCD mfrs stateside now, one of them being exclusively involved in very high end
    broadcast and digital film production equipment.

    But the whole gist of what I am getting at here is fracking. The EPA cannot regulate fracking methods and there are no other ways to regulate it so
    we are at the mercy of the companies that do it and they are not interested in pursuing safe methodologies for the obvious reason that it adds to the costs.
    If I didn't respond to your diatribe, it's possible you may have
    engaged in revisionism or broad sweeping generalizations.
    I don't have time for either, and you're probably on my IGNORE list.

  5. #135
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    Re: Seven States Running Out of Water

    Quote Originally Posted by Checkerboard Strangler View Post
    I'm saving this GEM, your assertion that oil is renewable, for a special occasion.
    It's going to be a lot of fun to destroy it. I want to get all my friends in here to watch first.
    Among them you can count a gentleman named Robert Rapier. Look him up.



    Not the least bit interested in discussing libertarian politics. Not with you, not with anybody.
    Libertarianism, at least as practiced by most right leaning Americans, is just anarchy for wealthy folks.
    I understand the wisdom of reining in government overreach where appropriate.
    I also understand that most of America's libertarians have some of the most inappropriate concepts of what defines government overreach.
    So when it comes to discussing libertarianism with me, save your breath, you'll need it to blow up your date.



    Roughly 12 percent of every gallon of gas has taxes attached to it:
    EIA-December-2011-Gallon-Breakdown.jpg
    Of course since libertarians do not believe in taxes, I understand the roots of your theory, but it's still just about 12 percent.
    Do the math. A forty-five cent discount isn't going to rock the world. And it won't do anything to stop market speculators, whose job it is to bid on oil futures to make a profit, from doing what speculators do. You discount forty-five cents, they see wiggle room to drive it up forty-five cents.
    There is a well established formula for gasoline price demand destruction in every market on the planet and the USA is no exception.
    When gasoline FIRST went up over four bucks a gallon Americans didn't have fleet fuel economy as good as they do now, so the response was for them to drive less, significantly less. So much less that the speculators actually burned themselves a little.



    Bla bla bla anti-government rant. Do you ever have anything else in that Ayn Rand jukebox of yours?
    Put on a different record please...or not



    What's the right direction, please...enlighten me.
    And, as far as them catching on fire, you are required to back that up with some facts, please.
    I can't wait to lay waste to them.


    95 percent? Uhhhhhh NO, that would be piston engine cars doing that.



    Please don't confuse lead-acid or Edison battery tech with current Li-Ion and NiMh tech.(the latter being mostly displaced by the former)


    Price of batteries, speed of charging, and both are coming way way down, and if anything it's happening much faster than the price of VCR's.
    I actually tried to be conservative. Industry analysts have all made the same prediction as to charge rates and the general consensus is that, in about ten years it will be common to see charging stations which replace 80 to 90% of a car's charge in about as much time as it takes to fill a gas tank. There goes the range anxiety argument.



    Too bad. Sucks to be you I guess. You're the one saying you're John Galt.
    (Mumble mumble stop the motor of the world mumble mumble Reardon Metal, mumble mumble Galt's Gulch)



    Speaking of concepts, Ayn Rand never worked a single labor job in her entire miserable life but for some reason she expected people to swallow a story about a man who invents perpetual motion machines, static electricity generators, magical metals and irritable architects who blow up buildings to stoke their tantrums, and this has become the BIBLE for a generation of angry people who want a scapegoat.

    Thus we hear:

    So who was it again who had trouble with common core logic and concepts? Your hero engaged in flights of fancy that surpass L. Ron Hubbard for laugh content and, it would be funny if her acolytes weren't working feverishly to make her books a neo-Mein Kampf for the 21st century.

    PS: The actual picture of Rand I selected was rather small.
    I can't help it the site blew it up in size.
    I was actually rather surprised it was that large.

    Do I need a tutorial on how to manipulate image sizes on DP?
    Point me to it please somebody
    The simple fact you don't comprehend that oil is renewable is enough for me to disregard and not even bother to read your post.

    Seriously???

    Do they teach the world is flat now too?

    Where do you think oil comes from anyway - just out of personal curiosity?

    And you think I'm funny or stupid?

    Does the Earth revolve around the Sun or does the Sun revolve around the Earth?

  6. #136
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    Re: Seven States Running Out of Water

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    The simple fact you don't comprehend that oil is renewable is enough for me to disregard and not even bother to read your post.
    The "not even going to bother to read your post" response is typical of someone who feels that they might have painted themselves into a corner.
    You posted that it's renewable, so you OWN it and since you own it YOU must back up your assertions.

    If you don't want to back up your assertion that oil is renewable with references to a theory that supports it, that's fine but please don't attempt to use personal attacks as a means of pretending that I don't know anything about the subject.
    I do not claim to be an expert but I know a few, and I am simply waiting for the meat behind your claim.
    Then I will be glad to respond.

    Sorry, those cheap parlor tricks don't work with me Mr. Nick.
    If you claim oil is renewable, support your claim or admit you don't know about the subject.
    If I didn't respond to your diatribe, it's possible you may have
    engaged in revisionism or broad sweeping generalizations.
    I don't have time for either, and you're probably on my IGNORE list.

  7. #137
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    Re: Seven States Running Out of Water

    Quote Originally Posted by Checkerboard Strangler View Post
    The "not even going to bother to read your post" response is typical of someone who feels that they might have painted themselves into a corner.
    You posted that it's renewable, so you OWN it and since you own it YOU must back up your assertions.

    If you don't want to back up your assertion that oil is renewable with references to a theory that supports it, that's fine but please don't attempt to use personal attacks as a means of pretending that I don't know anything about the subject.
    I do not claim to be an expert but I know a few, and I am simply waiting for the meat behind your claim.
    Then I will be glad to respond.

    Sorry, those cheap parlor tricks don't work with me Mr. Nick.
    If you claim oil is renewable, support your claim or admit you don't know about the subject.
    Decomposing matter turns to oil eventually, since we have layers of decomposing matter decomposing that matter will eventually turn to oil.

    Now the real question is - are we overusing oil (or decomposed matter) faster than it can decompose and turn into oil???? that is the question and the answer is yes we are. At the same time tho we have only tapped 10% of our "dinosaur juice" so there is plenty left... But at the same time organic matter is turning into oil as we speak.

    Oil isn't finite.....

    is that a good enough explanation?

    I can't say it's the best, but I think it's certainly blunt. I have no desire to write a thesis on organic decomposition. I suppose I could add a little bit more of substance but why? everyone except for a few knows what I'm talking about.

  8. #138
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    Re: Seven States Running Out of Water

    Decomposing matter turns to oil eventually, since we have layers of decomposing matter decomposing that matter will eventually turn to oil.

    Now the real question is - are we overusing oil (or decomposed matter) faster than it can decompose and turn into oil???? that is the question and the answer is yes we are.
    Sigh, Mr. Nick, or Nick (may I call you Nick or do you prefer MISTER Nick exclusively?) at first I was sure you were going to posit the abiotic or "abiogenic" oil theory advanced by, among others, Thomas Gold and a certain group of Russians and their associated Russo-philes.

    But we're in uncharted territory or...we would be if your logic wasn't so flawed.
    The accepted definition of non-renewable is tied mostly to TWO things, one being the rate of renewal and the other being OUR LIFETIME.

    Since it took MILLIONS of years for that organic matter to decompose, get squeezed by MILLIONS of tons of pressure and heat brought on by the steady accumulation of mineral deposits which eventually turned to ROCK and CLAY, it's safe to say that, in our lifetime we will not be able to expect seeing any substantial "renewal" of petroleum resources. Neither will our children, their children, their children's children ad infinitum to the 27th generation and beyond.

    By YOUR logic, Mister Nick, DICED LIONS are also a renewable resource.
    May I politely offer that you "have no desire to write a thesis on organic decomposition" because you can't write one.

    And the abiotic oil theory is widely debunked. Cornucopean theories that suggest that there is an unlimited amount of oil constantly replenishing in the bowels of Earth are also bunk.
    And, while we may have only extracted a certain percentage of our "dinosaur juice" there is a pesky thing called EROEI or
    Energy Returned On Energy Invested and, once a resource (like petroleum, for the sake of the discussion) reaches a sufficiently negative EROEI
    it can safely be declared UNRECOVERABLE.

    In the beginning of the petroleum era it only took about one barrel of oil's worth of energy to recover over a HUNDRED barrels in most drilling sites.
    Today that figure is closer to an average of about ten or fifteen, maybe twenty on a good day.

    The EROEI of crude oil is what's finite, it is a finite number as far as economics are concerned.
    All of the low hanging fruit was picked a while ago and what remains will continue to become more energy intensive and more expensive
    to explore for, to extract, to refine and to distribute.

    That's not from some genius in the oil industry, it's basic Petroleum 101.
    You might have noticed that my avatar is an amusing picture of a V-8 engine with arms on it.
    That should clue you in on the fact that I am not some hippie communist oil hater.
    I simply don't see much in the way of petroleum's assured future as a monopoly commodity, that's all.
    It will continue to be around for quite some time but as the EROEI decreases, other forms of energy will become more practical.

    And, you might know this or you might not, but the price we pay at the pump isn't the real price either.
    You'd be shocked to know what the real figure is.
    If I didn't respond to your diatribe, it's possible you may have
    engaged in revisionism or broad sweeping generalizations.
    I don't have time for either, and you're probably on my IGNORE list.

  9. #139
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    Re: Seven States Running Out of Water

    And, to swing the discussion back to the main subject, the oil industry is using several HUNDRED TIMES more WATER to GET the remaining oil out right now, and they're using it in a manner which renders that water UNRECOVERABLE by standard water treatment methodologies too, because they are tainting it with poisonous chemicals which are too expensive to remove by practical means.
    If I didn't respond to your diatribe, it's possible you may have
    engaged in revisionism or broad sweeping generalizations.
    I don't have time for either, and you're probably on my IGNORE list.

  10. #140
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    Re: Seven States Running Out of Water

    Chemical Name CAS Chemical Purpose Product Function
    Hydrochloric Acid 007647-01-0 Helps dissolve minerals and initiate cracks in the rock Acid
    Glutaraldehyde 000111-30-8 Eliminates bacteria in the water that produces corrosive by-products Biocide
    Quaternary Ammonium Chloride 012125-02-9 Eliminates bacteria in the water that produces corrosive by-products Biocide
    Quaternary Ammonium Chloride 061789-71-1 Eliminates bacteria in the water that produces corrosive by-products Biocide
    Tetrakis Hydroxymethyl-Phosphonium Sulfate 055566-30-8 Eliminates bacteria in the water that produces corrosive by-products Biocide
    Ammonium Persulfate 007727-54-0 Allows a delayed break down of the gel Breaker
    Sodium Chloride 007647-14-5 Product Stabilizer Breaker
    Magnesium Peroxide 014452-57-4 Allows a delayed break down the gel Breaker
    Magnesium Oxide 001309-48-4 Allows a delayed break down the gel Breaker
    Calcium Chloride 010043-52-4 Product Stabilizer Breaker
    Choline Chloride 000067-48-1 Prevents clays from swelling or shifting Clay Stabilizer
    Tetramethyl ammonium chloride 000075-57-0 Prevents clays from swelling or shifting Clay Stabilizer
    Sodium Chloride 007647-14-5 Prevents clays from swelling or shifting Clay Stabilizer
    Isopropanol 000067-63-0 Product stabilizer and / or winterizing agent Corrosion Inhibitor
    Methanol 000067-56-1 Product stabilizer and / or winterizing agent Corrosion Inhibitor
    Formic Acid 000064-18-6 Prevents the corrosion of the pipe Corrosion Inhibitor
    Acetaldehyde 000075-07-0 Prevents the corrosion of the pipe Corrosion Inhibitor
    Petroleum Distillate 064741-85-1 Carrier fluid for borate or zirconate crosslinker Crosslinker
    Hydrotreated Light Petroleum Distillate 064742-47-8 Carrier fluid for borate or zirconate crosslinker Crosslinker
    Potassium Metaborate 013709-94-9 Maintains fluid viscosity as temperature increases Crosslinker
    Triethanolamine Zirconate 101033-44-7 Maintains fluid viscosity as temperature increases Crosslinker
    Sodium Tetraborate 001303-96-4 Maintains fluid viscosity as temperature increases Crosslinker
    Boric Acid 001333-73-9 Maintains fluid viscosity as temperature increases Crosslinker
    Zirconium Complex 113184-20-6 Maintains fluid viscosity as temperature increases Crosslinker
    Borate Salts N/A Maintains fluid viscosity as temperature increases Crosslinker
    Ethylene Glycol 000107-21-1 Product stabilizer and / or winterizing agent. Crosslinker
    Methanol 000067-56-1 Product stabilizer and / or winterizing agent. Crosslinker
    If I didn't respond to your diatribe, it's possible you may have
    engaged in revisionism or broad sweeping generalizations.
    I don't have time for either, and you're probably on my IGNORE list.

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